Tuesday open thread

We have an open thread today.

For a starter you can take this challenge:

What do you pack for a one-week trip to . . . San Francisco?  Or San Diego?  Or pick another location.  Can you stick to carry-on?  What do you wear on the plane?

I was inspired by this thread:  Help Me Pack

Since I try to be a minimalist packer, I like the advice in this NYT article to leave behind ‘Most of the clothes you’re thinking of bringing’ and ‘Anything you “might” use’.

Upcoming topics:

Wednesday  —  Break down the silos  (Rhode)
Thursday  —  Open thread
Friday  —  Enjoy a cocktail and improve your Spanish   (July)
Sunday —  Politics open thread

Advertisements

130 thoughts on “Tuesday open thread

  1. I pack heavily-ish (extra socks and underwear, and an extra t-shirt) but I am much better than I used to be in college/early 20s. For our conference trips, I make a spreadsheet of what I am going to wear on each day and stick to it. (You can’t wear the same thing multiple days at a conference if you are a woman! And also, for the fancy conferences there is an outfit change in between events!) I wear lots of layers on the plane since I always get cold. In the winter I wear my fleece leggings and in the summer I wear jeans.

    I also always bring Advil etc. since I am usually using it on the plane for headaches. Not much cash, and I agree with the “might” recommendation.

  2. I used to go with my colleagues on road shows for new deals. Most would be 4 or 5 days. We would visit a combination of 3-5 of these cities in 4 or 5 days: LA, San Fran, Denver, Chicago, Minneapolis, Boston, Dallas, Houston. no check in since I was generally traveling with guys and we were pressed for time. I could easily pull this off in April/May or July or Sept because the weather was similar across the country. All black or navy dresses, pants, jackets and sweaters. Thin, lightweight shells and tees in light colors or simple prints. A black sheath dress could be worn at least two times with different accessories or sweater or jacket. I always took a packable trench on the plane. Accessories like scarves and thin sweaters get layered on for chilly planes, and stored for hot sidewalks. Sometimes, I would have a 2 night stay and I could use the hotel laundry. I wore sneakers or work shoes on plane, I always packed thin fip flips that could double as casual shoes at night. Like a Tkees or Tory Burch. Hard choices were made about workout clothes and rain or snow gear if necessary.

  3. My running shoes are usually my bulkiest shoes so I usually wear them when flying as my other shoes take up less room in the suitcase.

    When I had just started college, I went to visit a good friend from high school who was going to NYU for Fall break. This was my first time in NYC. I completely overpacked because I tried to think of any potential outing and then bring clothes for that situation. It was NYC – you never knew what you might do! I filled a ginormous pink Samsonite hard-sided suitcase. It had no wheels. It was super heavy and not particularly maneuverable. At one point my friend and I resorted to pushing it along the sidewalk (despite the fact that it had no wheels). Definitely my worst case of overpacking.

    Several years later I backpacked through Europe and lived out of a suitcase for 6 months. That suitcase/backpack was much smaller than the ginormous pink Samsonite monstrosity.

    My other memory of that trip was that I got to NYC on a charter bus from my school in Philly. It was going to Port Authority – so my friend and I decided to meet there. Neither of us had ever been to Port Authority or had any concept of how big it is (we were both from Vermont). Ever since then, my idea of hell has been being trapped in Port Authority for eternity. No windows. Endless corridors. Like a rat’s maze. Eventually my friend had me paged and we connected. Which she may have regretted after catching a glimpse of my suitcase.

  4. I had very little money when I had a chance to visit Paris for the first time with a girlfriend. I didn’t over pack because I didn’t have much clothing that was appropriate for Paris. Everyone told me that I shouldn’t bring anything that screams ugly American. I only wore black clothes. Maybe a few white tees, and I bought some different scarves in Paris because it was much colder and damper than I expected. Those added color and warmth to my outfits and coat. I must have looked like a local because I got asked for directions all of the time. I was just acting like a NYer – dark clothing, head down, no eye contact and shopkeepers, and tourists assumed that I was a local. I only took one small carry on, but I did bring a large duffel bag home with me because I bought some stuff.

  5. “You can’t wear the same thing multiple days at a conference if you are a woman! ”

    I don’t have a great sense of style, but I believe it can be done by sticking to basics and accessorizing. But that would be so boring for some women.

  6. I agree that the hardest time is winter or multiple climates in the same trip. For work for a whole week, it would be two pair of black pants (one dressier, one more casual), a black blazer, a different color blazer, and tops that coordinate. Plus my CPAP — I like to shove in my suitcase if it will fit, but if not I’ll carry it on separately. Plus basic gym gear — shoes are a pain, but the workout gear itself is teeny, and I also add my wrist wraps and a lacrosse ball for rolling out tight spots (planes/conference tables freaking kill my back). I usually try to get by with one pair of other shoes, which I wear on the plane — black or red boots in winter, dressy sandals in summer. A couple of layers for the plane; in “cool but not freezing” seasons, I like to wear my wrap, which I can often shove inside my leather computer bag or use as a blanket/pillow on the plane.

    We have a variety of carry-ons, from European-sized to full American sized, so I tend to take the smallest one that will fit my stuff, unless I plan to buy something to bring home (e.g. tea on my recent SF trips). My favorite is probably my backpack (Cabin Max Metz): it is sized so that it will fit European carry-on limits (if you don’t totally overstuff it), but I can fit four full-sized packing cubes inside it, plus there’s a slim outside pocket for laptop, phone, etc. I did our full summer vacation with that, because we had one tight connection, and it was great — although with the CPAP in it, it can get pretty heavy, since it doesn’t have the internal supports of “real” backpacks.

  7. Love the hipster dude in the picture!

    “You also don’t really need bottles of easily-obtained medications like over-the-counter painkillers.”
    This is really bad advice. Sure, you may be able to find it, but it often takes time to figure out what kind of store carries Advil, and how to recognize the bottle when the writing is in Chinese or Hebrew. Not fun when you have a bad cold or killer headache. I can remember needing Advil for a bad sore throat in Belgium on a Sunday – they only sold the stuff in pharmacies, and all of the pharmacies were closed except for the designated one that week which was many blocks away.

  8. I’ve given up on trying to be a minimalist packer. These days, our trips are mostly outdoors/adventure trips with lots of hiking, rafting, biking, etc., and I find them more enjoyable when I have all of the right gear, and enough of it to be in clean clothes every day. And having the right shoes makes all the difference. So for our week + trips, I always check a suitcase and have a carry on as well.

    We are heading to France for spring break, and I am in the process of setting aside clothes that otherwise it’s time for them to be discarded – either they don’t spark joy or they’re a bit worn out. These will be my day time exploring clothes and then they won’t come home with me. (For dinners out, when I want to look nice, I’ll pack my favorites dresses/outfits).

  9. I spent 2 months biketouring and camping in Europe many years ago. When you have to stuff everything, including cooking gear, into two tiny panniers, you learn to pack light!!!

  10. I did travel around Europe in college with just a backpack for 2 months. In my mind, it was sort of like the hostels I stayed in. Adventurous and fun at the time, but no desire to go back to that kind of travel.

  11. Shoes are a problem for me when I travel, especially the running shoes. If it is a conference, I need dress shoes, but I usually would rather not do much walking in those and definitely don’t want to go running in them. If I am going to have a chance to change clothes after getting off the plane, I will wear comfy walking shoes on the plane, beause dress shoes take up little space. But those running shoes! On every trip, I have to decide whether it is worth the space in my bag to bring them. They are just so huge.

  12. Isn’t it a little surprising that, as wealthy as we’ve become and in particular, as wealthy as the audience is of this NYT travel article, there’s all this strategizing about how you can pack so little that you re-wear the same pair of jeans for four or five days in a week?

    Can’t you pack whatever you want and give a nice tip to the porters? Why would you be dragging bags through the streets when you can take a car to your hotel?

    On that cheerful note, I’ll share that we’ve booked our next cruise, scheduled for the summer of 2020. This one’s an 11-night trip out of Copenhagen stopping all along the Norwegian coast, and crossing into the Arctic Circle (I’ll finally get my Bluenose certificate). The best part is that almost no more planning or decisions are required on our part. The ship’s stopping in a bunch of ports, so we don’t have to spend weeks on TripAdvisor weighing all the different options of what sights we absolutely must see. We’ll see what we see.

    DW’s parents had suggested the destination as an alternative to Alaska, so we made sure that the dates worked for them to join us. After we booked, I emailed my parents and told them that they’re getting old, whether they realize it or not, that they should join us, and here are the details. They said “Sure, we’ll do it. Sounds great.” So we’ll have a group of nine.

  13. “This is really bad advice.”

    I was also thinking that it doesn’t take much space to pack a couple Ziplock snack bags of your favorite OTC painkillers and other meds.

  14. Can’t you pack whatever you want and give a nice tip to the porters? Why would you be dragging bags through the streets when you can take a car to your hotel?

    At this stage of life I agree with you. The only nagging consideration for me is the risk of the airline losing our luggage and the associated inconvenience. It is rare for us to go an entire trip without one piece of luggage becoming waylaid. Luckily, the past few times it has been on the way home rather on the way there.

    On that cheerful note, I’ll share that we’ve booked our next cruise, scheduled for the summer of 2020.

    That’s exciting. I’m starting to research 2020 options. DH and I have a milestone anniversary to celebrate and I’ve been thinking we need to do something special, but the pressure of special is getting to me. What makes a trip special when we are already big travelers?

  15. I wouldn’t put them in a ziplock if going overseas. Always keep all meds, presciprtion and non prescription, in original bottles for customs

    “Can’t you pack whatever you want and give a nice tip to the porters?”
    What porter?

    When we went to Paris, we decided to take a cab from the airport to the hotel. In past years, I always would have taken the Metro. The cab was fine, but when we got to the street where the hotel was, it turned out it was pedestrian only, so we still had to schlep the bags a couple of blocks.

  16. Yes, I always keep the Rx and advil in the original bottle.

    The last conference I went to I had like 7 pairs of shoes. Sneakers for the plane, conference shoes (day) and event shoes (night). I wore the same shoes for the 1st night and 3rd night event but otherwise no repeats. YMMV if you are not as fashion-obsessed as I. ;)

  17. I went to a conference in Baltimore once with only one pair of shoes, trying to pack lightly since I took the Amtrak. I was only staying one night so I figured it would be OK. Well, the first evening I went out to buy some souvenirs, and got caught in a sudden thunderstorm and downpour. The shoes were soaked, never dried overnight, and I had to wear them the next day. It was horrible – I got blisters from the wet shoes.

  18. I don’t know if y’all ever read the Rick Steves travel forum website but OMG talk about holier than thou. Those folks are hilarious about packing light. It’s truly a religion for them, and checking a bag is sin #1.

  19. I have gotten better at packing but that’s because my clothes are Lulelemon black pants and athletic type tops for the most part. I do take better dinner worthy clothes but I just take one or two nicer tops, same pants. I found packing cubes to be great for packing. I will read The NY Times article because we will be visiting my sibling overseas and I want to make sure we have packed not only right/light but are comfortable in our clothes.
    Now, I don’t want to manage lots of luggage like I did during trips to the home country. We had to take a ton of clothes to attend weddings.

  20. Lark — Forget about the pressure for it to be “special.” Just go to a place that DH and you really want to go to. Are you also taking the kids?

  21. For Greece and Italy this summer, I’ll probably just pack 2-3 dresses (light material, but that cover knees and shoulders so I can go into churches), a couple of plain t shirts, a skirt, and a pair of shorts. Probably just one light sweater for evenings. All our apartments have a washing machine, and things will dry quickly in the Mediterranean climate. One pair of good walking shoes, and one dressier pair (probably sandles with a slight wedge heel). I’m still planning to check my bag, though, to deal with toiletries. We’ll be gone 2.5 weeks, so I’ll need full-size bottles of things like contact-lens solution.

  22. It truly matters what you plan to do and the purpose of the trip. I tend to stick to one color – navy more often for casual travel and black for business travel – and then layer to add pattern or color with a sweater, scarf and/or jacket. My area of over packing is underclothes! I pack 4 sets for every 3 days. I always have 2 pair of shoes that can go with everything for exactly the issue MM had being caught in the rain.

    Most leisure travel it doesn’t matter if you wear the same thing or very similar over and over because only your traveling companions who are doing the same thing are going to know. When you are traveling on business, it matters more. Again, when I traveled mainly with men, they didn’t seem to notice that I wore the same thing multiple times, but women do and are very judgmental, IME.

  23. I’ve given up on trying to be a minimalist packer. These days, our trips are mostly outdoors/adventure trips with lots of hiking, rafting, biking, etc., and I find them more enjoyable when I have all of the right gear, and enough of it to be in clean clothes every day. And having the right shoes makes all the difference.

    Sistah. And I hate people who think they’re morally pure because they don’t check baggage. Don’t check if you don’t want to. No skin of my ass, UNLESS you’re jamming your too-big carry-on into MY overhead bin space.

    This is one of my favorite things about vacationing in our second house. So much stuff is already there. I easily have enough clothes there for a weekend, but I always bring more because I don’t know what my mood will be. Reminds me of L, talking about how she doesn’t meal-plan for a week because she doesn’t know what she’s going to want for dinner on Thursday. I don’t know what I’m going to want to wear on any given morning, so I bring a variety of things.

  24. I agree on the medicines! While you can get what you need in many places, figuring out what and where can be time consuming. I always add a small first aid kit to get you through in a pinch. One other thing I found, is that you can take many small bottles in a carry on and still have space. Sunscreen was one we struggled with at first as some make me itch. I took the 7ish ounce bottle and put it in two 3 oz bottles and that was enough for the trip.

  25. (light material, but that cover knees and shoulders so I can go into churches),

    I went with my yoga group to Greece a year and a half ago. Most of the women are young and very fit, and fine with wearing minimal clothing in public. For one of the tours, we went to a little monastery, and they all had to put on these gigantic tee-shirts that the monastery kept on hand for yoga heathens. (I had a dress and a huge scarf, so I was fine.)

    By the way, these scarves:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073SCRVD6/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    are huge, a nice hefty weight, and dirt cheap.

  26. Hm, I put my medications into one of those plastic daily-pill things, and shove OTC painkillers into a baggy, and I’ve never had any problems.

  27. RMS – I think they should start charging for the overhead bin space. It’s at a premium in every plane. The process of getting bags up/down from the bin is treacherous. On my last trip, I watched as a person whipped their bag down, and came within 1 inch of clobbering the person next to them.

    I’ve done one trip where I didn’t have to check the bag – a weekend trip to WV for a wedding. I don’t mind checking at all. I’d rather know I have what I need with me. And I try to leave a little extra room in the luggage for things I purchase, or if I don’t feel like spending more time packing like it’s a military mission.

  28. Are you also taking the kids?

    Not sure. It’s hard to leave them for more than a week (because of the logistics of having grandparents cover, not because I find it hard emotionally). This is part of my analysis paralysis.

  29. Conversation on women and fashion makes me really glad to be a woman in engineering. My female colleagues also wear the same outfits repeatedly and travel with a single pair of shoes to conferences, and they are among the least judgmental people I know.

    Someone was doing research and had discovered that blister spray works well in a surprising application, His comment was, “You may not have seen it, because it’s marketed to women who wear high heels.” Response of female manager was, “Yup, that’s why none of us have ever heard of it.”

  30. Rhode – I am gun-shy about checking since my relatives had a string of 4-5 trips where the airline lost their luggage every single time! We did check on the UK trip though, I knew I wanted to buy stuff there and we were there for a week.

  31. Can’t you pack whatever you want and give a nice tip to the porters?

    I think the modern equivalent would be to fedex your bags to your destination and let the hotel worry about them until you arrive. Then have the hotel fedex them home when you leave.

  32. All our apartments have a washing machine,

    That is key to any trip longer than 3-4 days, IMO. You can pack so much lighter when you can throw the dirty clothes in the washer every night or two.

    RMS – I think they should start charging for the overhead bin space.

    I’ve been saying this since they started the checked bag fees. I’m sure slow turnaround times are more costly to the airlines than extra checked bags.

  33. Congrats on the trip booking Milo!

    We’ve started seriously looking at Alaska next year, probably somewhere between end of May and beginning of August. We want to do the land (Fairbanks to Seward/Whittier thru Denali) first, then the cruise. DW wants the ship to be smaller, which means <1000 in Alaska Cruise-speak. It'll be the 5 of us. I'm not certain if I want to spring for the extra to be on something other than Princess. How much better will the experience be? I'm imagining it'll be the last 'just the 5 of us' (or, said the other way 'all 5 of us') big trip given how future years are looking from here. It's also a milestone anniversary for us, a milestone b'day for DW next year. All tips/hints welcomed.

  34. “’You also don’t really need bottles of easily-obtained medications like over-the-counter painkillers.’
    This is really bad advice. Sure, you may be able to find it, but it often takes time to figure out what kind of store carries Advil, and how to recognize the bottle when the writing is in Chinese or Hebrew. Not fun when you have a bad cold or killer headache.”

    Not to mention that what is OTC at home is not necessarily OTC wherever you’re going. I still remember the search for DH’s allergy meds — first find a pharmacy in the small town (because of course the French don’t sell stuff in grocery stores like we’re used to); then figure out when it’s open (because he tells me this on Saturday, of course); then give the lady the bottle and have her look at me like I’m a drug dealer, because apparently whatever it was is not just prescription-only over there, but is the eyebrow-raising version of prescription-only. One of the few times I’m glad I look like a stupid American tourist. ;-) She was able to point me to a replacement, but that was a few brain cells I had not been intending to use on vacation.

    Re: packing light: You know, I think I’ve just been trained, both because my mom Will Not check a bag (she just did almost 2 weeks in Taos, Phoenix, and Oregon out of a carry-on!), and because baggage claim is so, so hellacious and slow at BWI — I am always amazed when we go somewhere else and the bags appear within like 5 minutes. But that’s part of the reason I like driving trips, because it’s just so easy to throw everything you might need into the trunk and call it good.

    Plus I still don’t take cabs/Uber that much. Partly because I’m cheap — I’ll Uber in from the airport on business, but prefer not to when traveling for fun. ;-) But also partly because sometimes driving is just so damn inconvenient. For ex., we’ll probably take the El from Midway to downtown Chicago this next trip, if for no other reason than our plane lands at 5 and it would probably take twice as long to try to drive in. Basically, I like the flexibility of being *able* to manage my own stuff easily, even if I don’t want to do that all the time.

  35. At one point I had decided that we will be hiking a ton, especially through hiking and backpacking. I used to lurk a ton on backpacking forums and boy were those people all about shaving ounces from their gear. I really got swept into it and talked all day about buying the lightest tent, best backpack and sleeping bag and so on. Sadly the husband showed no interest in anything beyond day hikes and then we had the kid. So I forgot all about it. Now I just look at blog posts about how to pack for 7 days in Europe in a carry on. And I am like nah ….If I am going to Paris, and take pictures, I might as well be wearing all the beautiful clothes.

  36. Checking bags is awesome! You drop it curbside & don’t have to worry about it again until you are almost out of the airport at your destination. I HATE dragging my crap through the airport, and I really hate having to fight over the overhead bins. I do it if it is a short trip, but I prefer not to.

    I’ve only had luggage temporarily lost once in my lifetime.

    I am not a minimalist packer, and I have no desire to be one. I want clean clothes everyday, and I don’t want to go to a laundromat on my vacation. (I will do laundry if in a rental that has one in the house.) I sweat, I spill – I am not the type of person who can bank on multiple wears per item. And putting a wet swimsuit on again is horrible. I hate it! And women’s suits dry so slowly.

    I do go mostly jewelry and makeup-free if traveling for pleasure to cut back on hassle/packing, but for work I need to have both to be put together.

  37. I have also learned to take my favorite instant coffee and stevia with me. I dislike strong coffee but still need something. I have realized that I need at least 3 pairs of shoes, and if the vacation involves a lot of walking or physical activity, I am not repeating any of my clothes without washing them.

  38. LT – Yes, Royal Caribbean. Partly because we liked them before, and because they seemed to have some good options in that area, at least among those offered by Costco Travel, and both of us have grown tired of researching and comparing things.

    Fred – I don’t have anything to offer other than I would think that the main question is whether a larger ship can get to some of the places where you want to go. So it’s all about the itinerary, which is easy to consider. And I’m familiar only with the experience of the larger ships, middle-of-the-road in terms of luxury level.

  39. “For ex., we’ll probably take the El from Midway to downtown Chicago this next trip, if for no other reason than our plane lands at 5 and it would probably take twice as long to try to drive in”

    That is the smart move.

    @Milo – That trip sounds really great! My parents did a British Isles cruise with a stop in Normandy, and that is a cruise that I could get behind as well.

  40. And to pay for it, we’re doing nothing this summer, other than enjoying the lake, and we have tentative plans to visit BIL and family near the beach, where we can bunk for free because they finally got worn down from living in 700 sf in the city with a baby and a dog and bought a new construction house in the suburbs.

  41. I prefer carry on not to save money or for the principle of it, but for the assurance that my bag will arrive with me at my destination. I’ve been burned too many times that way.

    Liquids are the main challenge to my minimalist, carry-on style. On my last trip I left behind sun block and figured I could buy some at my destination. The key is better pre-planning to get small containers for everything.

    Another challenge is shoes since I usually take at least four pair on any trip because of my picky feet. I usually wear the bulkiest, pack one pair in my backpack, and two in my rolling carry on. Then it’s 2-3 bottoms and 5-7 tops, plus underwear and miscellaneous stuff. It all usually fits in fine.

    “’You also don’t really need bottles of easily-obtained medications like over-the-counter painkillers.’

    I agree this only applies for domestic travel where those meds can be easily found.

  42. Milo, your trip sounds great. I have a Norwegian fjord cruise on my list. The one that caught my eye leaves from Southampton and includes an excursion to Pulpit Rock.

  43. Dell – I used to backpack too. It was all about light weight everything. Now we car camp, we have the huge REI Kingdome 6 (there are only 4 of us). All 4 of us have cots, and we have really nice camping chairs (no more sitting on the ground in a converted sleep pad chair). And I pack the car with every season of clothes. No longer will I be cold or wet.

    Normandy – My parents went on a river cruise (Seine from Paris). The personal tours they received of Normandy were amazing and talking to the people that maintain the cemeteries (they least they could do to honor those that saved them). It wasn’t just about going to see the cemeteries and a museum, the personal family stories of the French that live there were the best part of that trip.

  44. leaves from Southampton

    I’d love to do a transatlantic cruise because it would all about the travel not about the getting there. A couple hours out of NYC she’d be up to cruising speed and it would be nothing but open ocean till we neared Southhampton. If we could hit a massive storm that would be an added bonus.

  45. Milo’s cruise may replace my dream destination for a cruise (Alaska still holds). I do want to cross into the Arctic Circle and cross the Equator by ship. I’m positive DH and the boys would be into it, but my mom is the stumbling block. She hates to fly. Not a normal hate, a “I will drive everywhere so I don’t ever have to be in a pressurized tube” hatred. I’d have to drug her and carry her on board. Or leave her home which would never happen on a trip like that (I couldn’t deny her the adventure).

    As much as I love travel, I think we are traveled out this year. Last year was expensive with the unplanned trip to NY. If we do anything, I think we will ask BIL to borrow his house in PA for a week. Or we were talking about a staycation – take a week off work and do all the things we would normally try to squeeze on the weekend. Maybe both. We both have the time.

    With the staycation I don’t have to worry about packing. With the PA trip we’d drive, so an easy pack for us.

  46. Rhett – aim for August/September. Prime hurricane season… LOL!

    The ship plunging through the waves as the wind howles relentlessly and I’m all snuggled in bed on the my cool freshly pressed sheets. Heaven.

  47. Reminds me of an expression I’ve learned only by following various Facebook groups of distance/expedition boaters. There’s an old saying about crossing the Atlantic, in order to find favorable weather conditions, which tend to be farther south (in the northern hemisphere) the saying goes “Head south until the butter melts” [before crossing].

  48. “Checking bags is awesome! You drop it curbside & don’t have to worry about it again until you are almost out of the airport at your destination. I HATE dragging my crap through the airport, and I really hate having to fight over the overhead bins. I do it if it is a short trip, but I prefer not to.”

    Not when you have to do the baggage claim at JFK after a long international flight. I had to wait for an hour for my bag when I came back from Italy 2 years ago. And then there was the time in Seattle when we planned to check a bag – but we also wanted to get dinner before the red eye flight. All the restaurants were behind security. Unfortunately, JetBlue wouldn’t check bags until 90 minutes before the flight, so we decided to just cart the bag through security so we would have time for a nice dinner. I thought we could just gate check it later, but in the end we just hauled it on.

  49. Since it’s an open thread day, I’ll introduce a new topic now.

    We find ourselves on the market for a car again. We definitely want a car we can plug in, either a plug-in hybrid or all-electric, because we’ve added extra PV to our roof that will go to waste otherwise.

    Any suggestions, thoughts, recommendations?

    We’re leaning toward a plug-in hybrid that eliminates the range anxiety that comes with some all-electric cars. We liked the Prius Prime a lot, but it is very small. We’re planning to take a look at the Honda Clarity and the Hyundai Ioniq.

  50. Rhett – until you’re on the Poseidon Adventure! LOL!

    Finn – my PhD advisor has the Prius plug-in (though hers isn’t that small… it’s a normal sized Prius, so maybe an older model). She loves it.

    A guy in my leadership program is looking at the Porshe Panamera. Another owns a Tesla and loves it (the model 3 I believe).

  51. Checked bags – I usually don’t mind checking bags (agree that curbside drop off is the way to go). Late last night DH came back from a ski trip. The baggage claim area here is under construction and they sent his oversized bag (ski bag) to a part of the area under construction…as in behind a makeshift construction wall, and no construction worker would grab it from him, and Delta was no where to be found to help. He ended up waiting for the construction foreman to call security, who called Delta, to finally get his bag.

  52. Rhode, the plug-in Prius looks about the same size from the outside, but the additional batteries make it smaller inside, Only two in the backseat, vs. 3 in the regular Prius, and a small cargo compartment.

  53. “On my last trip I left behind sun block and figured I could buy some at my destination. The key is better pre-planning to get small containers for everything.”

    We’ve bought small tubes of Banana Boat at Target (1 fl oz, IIRC). But that’s the type that may damage reefs.

  54. Finn – What about the Chevy Bolt? It seems to be a little taller than the others you mentioned, and extra height tends to give cars a lot more room. Google says a 238-mile range, so I’d imagine that, given your geographic constraints (and battery-favorable temperatures) there’d be no need for the supplementary range of an added ICE.

  55. “I put my medications into one of those plastic daily-pill things, . . . and I’ve never had any problems.”

    Ditto. The prescriptions come in huge vials. I guess maybe I’ll peel off the labels and bring those with me just in case.

    I bring a small bottle of Advil, the smallest size they sell at CVS. It doesn’t take much space, weighs little, and when you want Advil is typically not the time you want to be trying to figure out where you can buy it.

    We also usually bring a few tabs of Benadryl, and some ginger candy.

  56. @Finn: we got the plug-in hybrid specifically because of range anxiety; I like to be able to get down to my dad’s without taking a big stop to charge up. But given the size of your island, range anxiety may not be that big of an issue.

    The thing I have noticed with the plug-ins is that the electric-only range is very limited — the big ones we were looking at were on the order of 10-30 miles only. So if we had not wanted to be able to cover @400-500 miles in a given day, a pure EV would be much more cost-effective — especially for someone like you with free PV on your end.

    Personally, I liked the Volvos a LOT; we got the really spacious sedan, but I would also have been very happy with the XC60.

  57. Milo, thanks, we should check out the Bolt and the Volt.

    We looked at the Bolt earlier, but it didn’t compare well against the Prius Prime. The overall feel, fit and finish, etc., was so much better in the Prius Prime. The Bolt felt like an old-school econobox by comparison.

  58. Oh, and thanks to Milo, I am now frittering time researching cruise options — we still have not settled on Japan dates/itinerary, and the flights cost more and more every time I look, to the point that I’m now feeling pretty averse to spending that kind of money. The “not having to make decisions” aspect of a cruise seems pretty appealing right about now.

  59. Finn – The Volt’s been discontinued, I believe. But that may or may not affect your decision on whether to consider one.

  60. “The “not having to make decisions” aspect of a cruise seems pretty appealing right about now.”

    I think that’s the key factor for my parents going ANYWHERE. Neither of them has any sort of travel planning inclination whatsoever, but they’re both very amenable to traveling and have a great time when they go.

    My mom still talks about Acadia as one of the best trips they ever took. And I sought no input from them at all. I said “this is going to be your adjacent VRBO cabin, here’s the address, this is roughly what we’re going to do, this is the amount you owe for your share, it starts on this date, bring your bikes.”

    And with the cruise, same thing. “Call this number, book this cruise, you can choose your level of stateroom.”

  61. @Milo: can you plan my summer vacation for me, too? The process you described is basically my dream. ;-)

  62. I can plan your vacation in 10 minutes. I’ll look at what Costco cruises are doing, and say “Book this. Here’s your itinerary. Have a blast. What time do you want to eat in the dining room?”

    I really am SO. DONE. with internet shopping and research. For now, at least.

  63. I have been looking at 2020 cruises and am still trying to choose between a small ship and a giant ship. A friend suggested Regent Sevens Seas, which is several cuts above Viking in luxury and all inclusiveness. That would involve lots of packing. There are black tie optional nights. And the cruise I wanted is already on wait list only. I have a deposit on one of the big NCL ships with the go Kart track on the top. We enjoyed the mix of folks on the Hawaii cruise, and the concierge deck is very nice and avoids the giant dining rooms, and you get guaranteed seats for the shows. But there are so many people on it. The other option is a repositioning Viking from NYC to San Juan via Bermuda and eastern Caribbean islands in late October. Seems risky to me for hurricane season, but perhaps Milo can advise.

    I learned to pack light when I had to take the small planes from place to place in Southern Africa. I always check a larger carryon, unless I have a tight connection on the outward journey. For the 2 weeks in Hawaii cruise first, then hotel, we stuffed a business conference freebie gear bag and the underseat rollerbag with medications, electronics, camera, swimsuits, 2 days extra underwear, 2 changes of light clothes each. We mixed our remaining stuff, including larger bottles, into the two hard side carryons we checked. 2 hour connection in Atlanta. We knew we could buy anything else we needed on the cruise or at an ABC store, and the bags would be at the hotel for the second week, even if both did not make it. I can wash underwear and socks and my exploring pants in the sink. On the way home we didn’t need to use the gear bag, so we packed it or we could have tossed it, there are more in the attic. I try to avoid connections on the outward journey. but that is not always possible and who cares coming home.

    I have comfy flats as well as walker/hikers and never crushable travel clothes that can be easily dressed up. The last time I paid to do laundry was in Argentina halfway through the hiking trip, and I was a group resource – I used USD to buy up the group’s excess Argentine money (not negotiable outside the country) on the next to last day and settled it that way. Got a couple of free drinks out of it , too.

  64. Milo – I think you’ve found your second career…

    In 4 years, one of the conferences I regularly attend will be on the West Coast. So far top 2 choices are Spokane, WA or Vancouver, BC. I’m up for either. At 8 and 6, the boys will be old enough for the journey (and not be too much of a hassle). Plus Seattle’s NHL team will be up and running AND Vancouver is right over the border. We may hit two arenas that trip.

  65. “Seems risky to me for hurricane season, but perhaps Milo can advise. ”

    No special expertise here. Maybe risky in that it might get diverted, but I don’t think it’s risky from a personal safety standpoint.

    And just thinking about watching the Weather Channel just like anyone else, there’s hurricane “season,” during which you can certainly expect a couple tropical events between August and October, but then there’s the much lower likelihood that there will be one intersecting with your specific route on the same date.

    I would book it.

  66. Rhode, Vancouver is really nice. Spokane is on the other side of the Cascades from Seattl, on the Idaho border. I think it is nice, but different from Seattle

  67. to the point that I’m now feeling pretty averse to spending that kind of money

    You could be dead tomorrow. I can’t say enough about Japan. It’s sooo much more fascinating than Europe, especially if you’ve been to Europe before. And don’t cheap out. All service in Japan is top notch but high end service is indescribable. And don’t take anything other than JAL or ANA.

  68. There are black tie optional nights.

    I would love that. I love dressing up in gowns. And DH has a nice tux and is willing to wear it.

  69. The “not having to make decisions” aspect of a cruise seems pretty appealing right about now.

    This is what we loved about our Backroads hiking trip. Zero decisions to have to make other than “how far do I want to hike” and “what do I want to eat.” It was such a mental check-out, I loved it. As compared to our upcoming spring break trip, which I know will be great, but has required so much more energy and investment, and then once we’re there I have to get us place to place…there was a time I loved that type of planning, but I’m not sure this is the stage of life where I do.

  70. RMS – I loooooove gowns! We have another event in March and I am glad of the excuse to buy a new dress! ;)

  71. “LfB, there are cruises in Japan too.”

    Yes. But the biggest problem is the getting there/back — honestly, my problem is the travel and jet lag, and I need a lie-flat seat to be at all functional, and I am struggling to even consider $6K for business-class tickets just to get there and back.* So putting the cost of a cruise on top of that isn’t too appealing.

    *I will admit that this year’s unanticipated new car and roof, together with the anticipated college and new bathroom expenses, are not exactly helping institute a carpe diem mindset.

  72. I tend to pack light but I do it strategically. I don’t wear the same shirt more than once but I’ll wear pants 2-3 times and I use scarves to change the look of an outfit. I’ve gone for as long as 2 weeks with a carryon, but I had access to a washer at one of our stops.

    The general rule in my house is that no one can check a bag. However, for our Yellowstone trip we checked one duffle bag with hiking boots, rain coats, heavy fleeces and other bulky items. With 5 of us in the rental we barely fit the 5 carryons, assorted backpacks and the duffle.

    In November I traveled to Paris with friends, all of whom brought huge suitcases that they could barely manuver. They were freaking out when they learned that we might need to take the train to CDG because the yellow vests were blocking all the roads to the airport. Fortunately, the roads were clear by the time we had to leave.

  73. I learned that I can wear clothes more than once when I traveled to Quebec but my bag ended up in Houston. I wore a black cotton skirt for three days with no problem, and I could have worn it for a few more days. But I did have to go shopping for shoes, not a quick task for me and my sensitive feet. Then there was the time I borrowed from my traveling companion’s resort wear stash for a few days when my bag was late getting to Cancun. I seem to have bad luck with lost luggage. The very first time I flew I made the mistake of packing and checking the bridesmaid dress for my sister’s wedding. Yup, it arrived late, but just in time for the wedding.

  74. I am struggling to even consider $6K for business-class tickets just to get there and back.*

    Check out JAL’s premium economy:

    You can’t really sleep on your way there because if you do you’ll end up at your hotel at 9pm fully rested. Anyway you cut it your going to have to power through a day to reset your clock. The same is true on the way back. If you leave at 5pm you’ll get home at 4pm the same day. If you sleep you’ll arrive home at 6pm fully rested. You just need to be comfortable more than you need to sleep.

  75. “You can’t really sleep on your way there because if you do you’ll end up at your hotel at 9pm fully rested. ”
    Depending on the time of flight, you can. The last time I went to China, I took a Cathay Pacific flight that left at midnight from JFK. I slept most of the way, arriving in Hong Kong at some early hour in the morning. Next time I go to Asia, I plan to do the same thing.

  76. Yeah, but July, you’ve said that you don’t really sweat. Some of us do. You’re lucky.

    I am really drawn to those travel outfits — you know, the stretchy ones that are pants/shell/jacket, made out of polyester and lycra (or sometimes acetate and lycra). But they were out of style the minute they were first produced, and that was 20 years ago, so I don’t buy them. Maybe I should just give in to being late middle aged and go for it.

  77. RMS – I need a travel wardrobe shopping assistant. The issue is my size. I see all the pictures in the athletic leisure ware magazines but I can’t get the picture to match the reality.
    I really need to get the Meme packing routine down !
    Anyway, I will try again in the spring before my UK trip. I need to decide whether we go with carryon sized suitcases or go with larger cases.

  78. “And to pay for it, we’re doing nothing this summer, other than enjoying the lake”

    Bring down that cost per use for your boat!

  79. “I think the modern equivalent would be to fedex your bags to your destination and let the hotel worry about them until you arrive. Then have the hotel fedex them home when you leave.”

    That approach seems to be pretty common in Japan, where they have excellent delivery services.

  80. “I can’t say enough about Japan. It’s sooo much more fascinating than Europe, especially if you’ve been to Europe before.”

    So how much time does one need to set aside for a trip to Japan? Is a week enough? What were your favorite spots?
    I just finished reading a book about Nagasaki so that would definitely be on my list.

  81. Louise, I have three of these:

    https://nuu-muu.com/collections/nuu-muu-classic

    They are not as frumpy as the older stuff I was referring to, although L would never wear one :-) . They’re really comfortable, pretty thick and sturdy, and flattering. The store calls them “dresses” but I wouldn’t dream of wearing them without leggings. Anyway, you can put a long-sleeve t-shirt under it, add long or capri leggings, throw a flowy cardigan over the ensemble, and the tops will take you from summer heat to, I dunno, maybe 55 degrees F? I wear them a LOT to California; in fact, I had to force myself to wear other stuff because I figured my friends were going to wonder if I owned any other clothes.

  82. LfB, thanks for reminding me of why we should be considering all-electric.

    Range anxiety is a real thing here, at least for some. The Nissan Leaf, in particular, seems to be the cause of this for many people.

    E.g., a friend of DW has a Leaf, and has range anxiety about going to the other side of the island to visit his son. It’s not so much the distance that’s an issue as having to go up and over some mountains in both directions.

    People we know who have Teslas don’t seem to suffer range anxiety, but the tax credits are running out for them, and we don’t want to spend that much on a car.

  83. “Bring down that cost per use for your boat!”

    Certainly an advantage, but not a requirement. That little boat has brought me so much pleasure…

    And personally, the initial excitement never wore off like it did when I splurged on a car.

  84. Thanks RMS.

    I will have to think of shoes as well. I have black Nike lightweight shoes that are suitable with many casual outfits and good for walking around. Do I need another pair of walking around shoes ?
    The kids will need suitable clothes as well, they go around in shorts/T shirts/sweatshirts or school uniforms. DS has an aversion to long pants. Sigh !

  85. “E.g., a friend of DW has a Leaf, and has range anxiety about going to the other side of the island to visit his son. It’s not so much the distance that’s an issue as having to go up and over some mountains in both directions.”

    He could add a roof rack, and get him one of these to strap to it:

    https://goo.gl/images/L19SBS

  86. Is a week enough? What were your favorite spots?

    A week is plenty for two places. We did Kyoto and Tokyo. If you wanted to do three places I’d add on two more days. That way you’re not rushed.

    The highlight was the Imperial Palace and the Golden Pavilion in Kyoto. So beautiful and so different than anything you’ve seen before (if you haven’t been to Asia.) We also had a ton of fun just wandering around so I’d be wary of trying to fit in a ton of pre-planned activities. Unless that’s your thing. In which case go for it.

  87. The other highlight was the food. There were just so many things that you’ve either never eaten, heard of or seen combined together. And even if you’re not super adventurous there are things like a whipped cream and fruit sandwich that most people would be willing to try.

  88. @ LfB – are you thinking about Japan for this summer, 2019? I see RT tickets first class on Delta for $4300. That’s pretty good.

    Japan is still at the top of our list for 2020 if we do a trip with kids. I think if we went without them they’d burn the house down, so it’s not on the list for trips just us.

  89. NoB there are almost always staterooms available on cruises. The question is what room where on the ship and the itinerary. The cruise that is already wait list only is a luxury San Diego to Miami full transit Panama Canal. I might just try to get on the wait list. On other ships I want a specific quality or location. I usually overpay, but we get what we want. People who cruise a lot often look for a last minute bargain and take pot luck on the stateroom. I have friends who prefer cheap and no window. They just sleep there. I want a double sink in the bathroom, a sofa and a balcony big enough for 2 chaises.

  90. Lark — If you decide to do your anniversary trip without your kids, how about just choosing another Backroads trip? You know it will be great wherever it is, so pick a date, then pick a destination, and off you go!

  91. I did a trip during the first summer of business school that pulled from multiple schools for 1 week. 1 person was a 2nd year. Of course, her luggage was lost. She bought 1 suit at the mall waiting for her luggage to arrive. She wore the same suit all 5 days of the event. Luggage arrived on day 5. And, she had already accepted a job at a place where business casual was the norm. Definitely taught me to pack the next day in the carry-on where important.

  92. Though Rhett and I seem to have very different travel philosophies, I totally agree with him on Japan. We had such a good two week trip there (4 air bnbs and a hotel) 2 years ago. I could go back tomorrow and spend a month and still not see everything I would like to. Easy travel, not so expensive, always a ton of things to do. Except at the Radisson near the airport. There is nothing to do around there.

  93. This is a fun book for anyone considering a trip to Japan – fun waltz through Japan food culture by a writer out of England.

  94. I mostly travel with my Osprey travel backpack (has a frame, but straps can be zipped away, is exactly overhead compartment sized). In Europe this summer and it was the accessory de riguer for pretty much everybody who wasn’t dragging something on wheels over the train platforms. We did a quick trip to Vegas with it recently – 2 pairs of shoes (plus one I wore), jeans, pajamas, 4 dresses and a sweater. I’ve used it for 2 weeks overseas (with laundry). I really like being able to get myself and my luggage easily where ever I need to go – my travel often involves busses, trains, stairs, cobblestones. There is no “tip the porter and it suddenly appears where it needs to go.” I hate carrying a rollerboard when you can’t roll it, so prefer to carry something with a bit of structure. I generally don’t check it, because I am cheap and inpatient. And I am absolutely asking RMS to take her jacket and purse out of the overhead bin and please store them at her feet so that we can reserve that space for large items.

    We are travelling to NZ in a few weeks – just me + 2 kids. I haven’t quite figured out the itinerary or luggage yet. I will work very hard to limit to 2 rollerboards, two little backpacks and my big backpack. In a pinch, I can manage all the luggage myself, for standard forced march through vacation, the kidlets will handle their own.

    As an aside, I will have two work meetings (with kidlets). I’ve been exquisitely clear that I am a single adult on vacation and will happily park my children with threats and books nearby, but nearby they will need to be. I received an email from the 1960s and was told that a secretary can keep an eye on them. Trying to figure out what to wear. NZ seems to be quite formal in many respects (everyone has lots of letters after their names) but quite informal in others. Online searching hasn’t really helped (dress nice! a little too nice!! but not too too nice.)

  95. And I am absolutely asking RMS to take her jacket and purse out of the overhead bin and please store them at her feet so that we can reserve that space for large items.

    You bet. No problemo. I am in a phase now where I check every single damn thing except a very small, transparent plastic backpack, the kind you take to stadiums. (It’s my little act of protest theater: “All of my belongings are available for viewing at all times, Officer. I wouldn’t dream of asking for privacy. All Hail the State.”) That goes under the seat in front of me. I usually wear a lightweight cardigan that I keep on during the flight.

  96. I received an email from the 1960s and was told that a secretary can keep an eye on them.

    LOL!

    Watch a few episodes of Brokenwood. The women seem to dress very similarly to U.S.A.nians.

  97. “Yeah, but July, you’ve said that you don’t really sweat.”

    lol That must be my superpower. The truth is more likely that I’m almost always cold and that I don’t exert myself as much as the average person. Couch potato for the win!

    This skirt is my jack of all trades for traveling and for not traveling. I wore it with fleece leggings last week in below freezing temperature and it kept me warm. On my trip out west I wore it in national parks and then with a satin top in Vegas for a night out. It never wrinkles. Okay, it wouldn’t pass L’s fashion test, but it’s a good workhorse for me.
    https://www.zappos.com/p/stonewear-designs-pippi-skirt-black/product/9013929/color/3

    I also have found the Nordstrom tissue weight cashmere/silk wraps are well worth the price for travel. They pack down to nothing, but offer beauty and warmth. Mysteriously even in warm weather they are very wearable.

  98. “No skin of my ass, UNLESS you’re jamming your too-big carry-on into MY overhead bin space.”

    I do that because some other passenger jammed their carry-on into MY overhead space. It’s dog eat dog out there!

    When my kid took his long weekend trip to Tokyo he wanted to eat well but also was on a budget. Apparently Denny’s offers nice choices of both Asian and western cuisine at affordable prices.

  99. Listen, all y’all, I feel like I’ve given an impression that I am always dressed up. NOT! My uniform on any day when I am not going into the office in the winter is fleece leggings, down skirt (or insulated skirt), Sorel/LL Bean fuzzy boots, and hoodie on top. I only get all coordinated for the office or traveling for a conference. Or a wedding. But not like the trip to the UK with the family, then I only dressed up for dinner! ;)

  100. Ada, do you have an idea of what areas in NZ you are going to? I’ve been working on our itinerary so I’d love to hear what you liked and didn’t like.

  101. Okay, I’m ordering RMS’s dress and July’s skirt. Then decluttering multiple things out of my closet. I get such good recommendations here. I had never heard of Boden but bought my dress for DS’s rehearsal dinner from there after another clothing discussion here. I was 100% sure no one else would show up in it, and it was a big hit.

  102. The LL Bean ones I have are similar but the fleece doesn’t come out of the top as much. I bought them at the outlet so I don’t think they have them any more.

  103. United is already charging for carry-on bags. Watch out if you book “Basic Economy.” You only get the space under your seat or else must pay more. There seemed to little to none policing of the policy in my experience.

  104. My secret to travel clothing is that I am content to look like the plump nana I actually am. When I keep up and then some with the group on the active tours they are surprised. I also bring a couple of flattering travel dresses except on hiking trips so every night I am in semi fresh clothes.

  105. The credit reporting process is so counterintuitive (some might even say f****d up).

    We recently paid off two smallish car loans and our credit scores dropped 5-10 points. Now I get responsible use of car loans is not the same as credit cards. One is secured, the other is unsecured. But the layman would figure that if someone met their legally entered into obligation on time (early even), never a late payment, their total outstanding debt is reduced, their score would go up since they could be viewed as a reliable user of credit.

    But no. Because we now have less variety in our credit profile. That’s the thought process.

    I’m all into personal finance and it still bewilders me.

  106. @Lark — thanks! Yeah, I think if we decide on Japan, we will need to go in/out of Tokyo. We had been looking into an “into Hokkaido, out of Tokyo” trip (DH found a little AirBnB that is in nature and by a bear sanctuary, and I totally anchored on that as my “first big night of sleep and jet-lagged day” spot). But that obviously limits our flight options. I think for first-class, I’d be willing to take the train up. ;-)

    @Rhett: you clearly have never seen me jet-lagged. ;-) Flying regular coach to Europe screws me up for three solid days — I’ve never done well without sleep, and as I get older, it gets intolerable (to the point that I am looking at transatlantic cruises to give my body a week to adjust). I am very worried that not sleeping for such an even-more-major time change, with only 2 weeks there, will knock me out for the entire first half of the trip. I found a Cathay Pacific flight that left at like 1:20 AM, which I figured would be perfect — sleep right away, then just have a long day on the other end. But that was the one that was $6K for Business.

    Re: travel clothes: everything folks are saying is exactly why my mom relies on Chico’s so much — comfortable, doesn’t wrinkle, easy to coordinate or dress up with scarves/necklaces, easy to layer, etc. Alas, that sort of flowy/drapey stuff doesn’t look good on my body type. At least, not without topping it off with the Rennfest corset, which would rather defeat the “comfort” purpose. ;-)

  107. @Fred: It’s because they’re not judging your trustworthiness — they’re judging your predicted profitability. And people who don’t take out loans or pay them off early are not nearly as profitable as people who take out lots of loans and pay them off on time and regularly.

  108. Fred – you’re echoing Dave Ramsey.

    He had an interesting broadcast yesterday. For years, he’s been complaining on the air that rental car companies treat debit card customers as second-class citizens for not using a CC to hold their reservation. Well, last March, one guy in Florida was listening to one of these rants in his car, and he happens to be married to the SVP of marketing for Dollar Rental Car. He tells his wife that this is a huge opportunity for Dollar, as Dave Ramsey has 15 million very loyal listeners, and is one of the top three radio broadcasters in the country (behind Rush and someone else).

    So Dollar changed their policies and they now have a major endorsement partnership with Ramsey Solutions. And it’s now called the Dollar Rental Car Studio where Dave broadcasts his show.

    His other longtime partners like Zander Insurance and Churchill Mortgage, I think, have found the arrangement very lucrative for them. And vice versa. Churchill doesn’t require a credit score to initiate a mortgage. They look at income, debt, etc.

  109. “the point that I am looking at transatlantic cruises to give my body a week to adjust”

    It’s the only truly civilized way.

  110. I do fine with jet lag going east. Europe is no problem for me. It’s going west that absolutely kills me. I am such a morning person that I can’t sleep in to save my life, and can take a full week to adjust to Pacific time, or back to Eastern time when coming home from Europe. Super annoying.

  111. Flying regular coach to Europe screws me up for three solid days

    How do you do it? You leave the US at 6pm arrive in Europe at 6am. Power through your day and go to bed at 9pm. Wake up all bright eyed and bushy tailed at 8am.

  112. @Rhett: Best I have figured out: Leave US @10PM, arrive @10 PM. Skip dinner on the plane, try to go straight to sleep. Have breakfast on the plane and as much tea as they will bring me. Power through day, go to bed at 8-9, sleep until 10 or so the next day. Be groggy all day, go to bed around 10. Wake up early the next day, be cranky, be unable to fall asleep that night until 2-3 AM.

    If I can get 5-6 hrs sleep on the plane, I can power through the first day, and the second full day is actually enjoyable. If I am in a coach seat and cannot sleep, I will barely be able to keep my eyes open the first day and will have to do everything in my power not to be a total b*tch for the first three days and will find it hard to enjoy anything. If I am so tired the first day that I have to nap, that just extends the pain.

    Not exaggerating — this is all from direct personal experience. I have tried everything, including melatonin, timing of carbs/protein/fats, you name it. I have just never done well without sleep, period. Even in my young/energetic college days, when I pulled an all-nighter to get something done, I’d go hand it in to the professor in the morning and then go back to bed and sleep through class. DH, OTOH, does what you do and is perfectly fine the next day and from then on. Bastard.

  113. Power through day, go to bed at 8-9, sleep until 10 or so the next day. Be groggy all day

    How can you be groggy after getting 14 hours of sleep?

  114. Quick note of humor: my dad was marveling at how relatively cost effective the cruise fare is, and told me that it will be cheaper for them to go on the cruise, where my mom is removed from normal shopping habits, than it would be to stay home.

  115. Milo,

    There is some old joke about a guy getting a call from his credit card company saying the cards been stolen. “We will close the account and send a replacement immediately.” To which the husband replies, “Please don’t! The thief is spending a lot less than my wife.”

Comments are closed.