Parenting teenagers

by S&M

Parents of current and former teens, please chime in! I understand that this curve represents the norm of teen years and parenting thereof, and now am experiencing it myself. Please post, in solidarity, stories of highs and lows, humorous or heart-tugging.

I don’t know which line is the parent and which is the kid, lol!

Advertisements

120 thoughts on “Parenting teenagers

  1. Maybe we don’t have any words of wisdom. My stepson was a cynical teen, and he thought all his teachers were stupid. That seemed right to me. I didn’t have much problem with him. I know his mother had fits over the cell phone issue — he refused to get one til he was about 17. And then he got one only because his mother had collected his friends’ phone numbers and would start calling around, and eventually his friends said, “DUDE. Get a damn phone.”

  2. That graph reminds me of how I parent my toddlers. This past Christmas, the blue line was me… prepping for 5 alarm fires when my boys displayed only trash can fires (red line). But for a long time, DS1 was the blue line, and I was the red line, thinking that this was a short-term phase. Short-term was relative, as it quickly became apparent he was experiencing more than just the terrible 2s and 3s.

    One night after a particularly bad battle, DS1 looks up at me and says “I don’t want to be so mad. I don’t know how not to be mad.” A 3 year old saying that. Well I broke down sobbing for the rest of the night. His teacher and my therapist praised him for expressing that and us for getting him to that point. Since then, he’s really been more line the red line on that curve. When things start to peak, they don’t PEAK lately. He’s learned to move himself away from his frustrations, and ask for help. We still have battles because man does that boy dig his heels in, but usually we can talk/compromise our way out.

    I hope teenage years are like that my Christmas example – you prep for 5 alarm and get 1 alarms or 2 alarms. But I have a feeling the phases will move faster and switch between the red and blue lines more frequently.

  3. For me, the first real full, after the holiday work day. So, I’m just now getting a chance to read this. This is likely more of a vent.

    DD#2 is about to drive me over the cliff. She is just CERTAIN that someone and/or class at her high school is going to walk her step-by-step through the career choice, college choice and college application process. That because she has basically done nothing other than take the SAT that she has all the time in the world and NO ONE at her school has told her to do anything. Oh, and the big one – None of her friends have done anything either! Did I mention they have 1 college counselor for the almost 600 kids in each grade level? So, 1200 juniors and seniors at a time.

    My first point is OMG! Didn’t you see the pain DD#1 went through because she put stuff off until the last minute? Weren’t you living in the room next door to her the whole year last year?

  4. Sometimes I think that my parents should buy me a yacht as compensation for all the headaches I saved them as a teenager. Especially after I’ve seen what my brother’s gone through with my nephew.

  5. The teen years can be trying, tiring, frustrating and at times an all around pain in the ass. Then there are the times that their true character shows through. Their patience with old people, their noticing that you aren’t feeling well and clean up from dinner and throw in load of wash,just general niceness and not just the self absorbed, selfish jerk living in your house.

    I was hospitalized this past weekend and my children were everything I hoped they would be. They were with me until they threw them out. They watched over my husband, made sure he ate, took care of the dog and tried to comfort him (he gets very distraught when I’m missing), kept the relatives up to date so they didn’t bother my husband. I came home to a clean, tidy house with flowers all over. They turned into wonderful adults!

  6. The one thing, I have tried to do is be available in the morning and early in the evening for my kids. This is the time they are more likely to talk about upcoming items or how their day went. I am in the car with one or both of my kids on a fairy regular basis. This is also talk time. DH typically gets home later and has the later part of the evening to interact with the kids. Our house is not typical as the grandparents are around. The kids have their own rooms but being in their rooms with no interaction with anyone is not possible in our house. It’s quite noisy.

  7. I have said this before and I will say it again – parenting teens is way harder and requires way more time than parenting younger kids, even toddlers. Time is really important, especially since you are running out of parenting time as your kids rapidly grow up. And there are societal expectations that you will have more time available for career or eldercare once your kids are teens. But with my own kids, I have learned this isn’t so. We have had a couple of crises in the last couple of years, in fact, that neither of us parents saw coming because we weren’t spending enough time with each kid individually.

  8. A friend is leading a group discussion of new moms and over the weekend asked us with teens about what we wished we’d known then that we know now. And, most of the comments focused on:
    (1) the amount of time you spend “doing” for them as an infant doesn’t change, but the activities do (changing diapers moves to asking if they bathed, trying to get them to sleep moves to trying to pry them out of bed, etc.),
    (2) their issues are always big issues to them, consider that when you respond,
    (3) if you want them to be independent adults, they have to learn independence as toddlers, and
    (4) if you aren’t role modeling behavior you want them to have, they won’t magically learn it somewhere else.

  9. Very little time to write today. I have found parenting a teenager so much easier than chasing exhausting toddlers and elementary school kids. Yes there are mood swings and occasional outbursts but the day in and out exhaustion just isn’t there. Perhaps this is my reward for all those years chasing boys and trying to keep them off the top of bookshelves and stair landings.

  10. Old Mom – I’m so sorry you were in the hospital. But I”m so glad that you are recovering and you raised good humans who care for you.

    Austin – (3) and (4) hit home right now. Oye do they are. DS1 can drive me through the roof and I am not modeling the proper behavior. I’m working very hard to keep that in mind so I don’t snap. Ugh. As for independence, I get it, but IT’S SO MUCH EASIER FOR ME TO JUST DO IT!!!

    Milo – at Xmas Eve dinner, my family got talking and decided the grandchildren (my two cousins and I) represented all the “hell” periods of parenting. Cousin #3 was a terrible baby, Cousin #2 (me) was a terrible child, and Cousin #1 was a terrible teen. Magically, we all turned out OK. Though I’m pretty sure our parents and grandparents never thought we’d live to see adulthood.

  11. I have said this before and I will say it again – parenting teens is way harder and requires way more time than parenting younger kids, even toddlers.

    I disagree on the amount of time – it’s not more time, but it’s different in how you have to spend the time.

    We’ve been very fortunate to have two really good kids. This is why I’m a big believer that how they turn out is 90% genetics, because I don’t think we’re great parents at all. DS has become very responsible, although still lacking some common sense. He stopped at the store to pick up stuff for our New Year’s fondue, and bought over 2 lbs of gruyere because he couldn’t find the weight on the packages. But he took the initiative to do the shopping.

    DD has seemed to have avoided most of the teen girl drama (knock on wood). They are both very enjoyable to be around, and they still want to spend time with us.

    So I’m really no help in dealing with challenging teens.

  12. I like Austinmom’s list. A wise friend once told me that with little kids, parenting is physically exhausting; with teenagers, it is emotionally exhausting. I pretty much found that to be true.

    I never was good at knowing whether something is a lifelong personality issue or a phase. Hence my hesitance to jump in with my advice here. But I’m certainly happy with how my kids turned out.

  13. Lark – yesterday as I was walking into the gym there was a women there with three young boys. This gym has an outdoor kids playground so she was obviously there to let them run off their energy. As she was paying the entrance fee the three boys were climbing up the trees and the lampposts, shaking the lampposts. Just the general make the most noise and destroy type of play. It got me thinking that a)this mom should really get her kids to stop, and b)perhaps she is so exhausted she doesn’t care anymore. Her day must be a consistent watch and discipline with no breaks.

  14. Stories of highs and lows – well, DH and I now laugh about the time a middle school son refused to put on a bathing suit at the beach and sat with his back to the ocean for no good reason. It seemed really dramatically awful to his beach loving mom at the time, which I’m sure was the point.

  15. Very little time to write today. I have found parenting a teenager so much easier than chasing exhausting toddlers and elementary school kids.

    Ditto.

  16. LT – as someone who has two spirited boys, I think it’s more (b). I can’t go anywhere alone with my kids unless they are both strapped into a stroller. I went to a bday party once and it was terrible for me. We all survived, but my oldest got overwhelmed and hurt another child and my youngest was miserable because I had to attend to the oldest. I’ve been wondering if I make DS1’s issues worse because I refuse to take him to places where he can’t be successful, and I have zero energy to find/create situations where he will be successful. It’s just easier to always travel as a family. Or just take 1 kid out at a time.

    Just like my mom before me… I also wonder if my boys will make it to their teens.

  17. Mooshi, ikr? How ’bout you? Got any commiserating to do? 2 of your 3 went through horrendous things in their early years. They came through well, are tough as nails and probably strong-willed too. That’s great for life, but for now, I bet it’s a bet trying, maybe even in funny ways. So have you got any good stories from the last few years?

    Rocky, if you don’t have lows and heart-tugging stories to tell, then how about humorous, heart-warming highs? Or is it so far away that you can’t connect now?

    Rhode, that’s awesome and adorable! And they do say the 2- and 3-year old years are prep for teen years.

    Austin, I hear you! The bigger and more important a thing is, the more my son is likely to put it off. He doesn’t want to think about it. I was irked with him a couple years ago for not wanting to take an easy opportunity to check out a college campus. Turned out that he had read the timeline on the school district’s website and it “wasn’t time yet” for campus tours. Maybe your school district has similar guidelines & timetables online somewhere. “their issues are always big issues to them, consider that when you respond” So true!

    Milo, lol. You never should’ve told us about ripping up that farmer’s production.

    Old mom, yes! Your first paragraph sounds familiar, and I love it! Actually, that sounds like my son most of the time until a few months ago. (When I had surgery and spent the week in bed and on pain killers when he was in 7th grade, he poured his own breakfast cereal, nuked his own dinners, rode his bike to and from school, and very often brought me food and meds as needed. I know that kid is still in there!) On the one hand, it’s a PITA to have him do normal “teenage” stuff, but on the other, I know it is a sign of growing up and being healthy, so hooray for self-absorption! So god to hear about your lovely young adults coming over to take care of you!

    “being in their rooms with no interaction with anyone is not possible in our house” Why not? Who’s making noise? The adults? Lol at that line!

    Recent story about my kid that I think is funny. I think of his looks about like I thought of mine at that age–serviceable/ good. It has bothered me to hear him get really down on himself about the way he looks. But the girlfriend, even though that’s been over for a month, left one lasting positive change (several, actually). She asked him “why are so you shy and nervous if you look like THAT?” (ie he’s good looking). He believes her, and ever since, he’s had confidence about his looks, that impacts his interactions with other kids and his general mood much more than I would have predicted. Today he told me about walking in to the classroom and shaking off the droplets of moisture on his hair. He was very demonstrative and a bit exaggerated as he showed me. I’m not sure how much of that he really did at school, but it just made me chuckle to see him so certain that it was a swoon-worthy sight.

  18. Why not? Who’s making noise? The adults? Lol at that line!

    Yes ! DH and DS love to listen to their music loud. MIL has old Bollywood songs going (not that loud, but still). MIL and FIL will be talking loudly sometimes (they probably need hearing aids but refuse). We should have our own reality show !

  19. Louise – and I thought my house was loud. You win! And if you got your own show, I would tune in ALL THE TIME! If only to know their are other houses like mine (3 generations under one roof, and constantly in each other’s ways!)

  20. Denver & HFN, my son’s elementary and middle school years were emotionally exhausting for us both. That’s why I’m so delighted to see where he is now. If he weren’t a scamp sometimes, and was always perfectly nice and pleasant, but not so much so as to have any funny/happy stories, I wouldn’t think that was a good sigh.

    HFN, amazing how well they know us, and where our buttons are! I’m sure you can all laugh about that now.

    Rhode, from what I can tell, you’re doing an awesome with kids who have more challenges than many at their ages. And it is wonderful that they have 3 adults taking care of them day after day for years! It is healthy for them to be able to do the “if mom says no, ask dad” kind of thing. That’s part of why I was so grateful to my kid’s sitter when he was your boys’ age. I remember that at least two times, he put his shoes on, said “I’m going to [her] house!”, opened the screen door to the patio, stomped across the playground, and by the time he got to her steps, she had gotten my phone call and come down to meet him. Yours get that baked right in.

  21. “if you aren’t role modeling behavior you want them to have, they won’t magically learn it somewhere else.”

    The corollary to that is that they will learn the behavior you model, whether it’s what you want them to learn or not.

    I also believe that how you treat your kids will be directly reflected in how your kids treat you when the dependency relationship flips. That’s just a theory of mine; I’d be interested in any data, including anecdata, on whether or not that’s true.

  22. ” I also wonder if my boys will make it to their teens.”

    On DS1 – his psychologist reassured me that he’ll be fine as an adult (he’ll hire an assistant) its just getting him to that point that may be a challenge. I wonder if *I* will make it until he’s an adult.

    On DS2 – this year he has broken a knuckle, cracked his front tooth, gotten a root canal and rebuilt tooth and gave himself a black eye stumbling around in his room at night. Took him for his annual physical, turns out he needs glasses. But for only one eye. Because he could see fine out of one eye he didn’t realize he should tell us he couldn’t see well out of the other. Glasses ordered.

  23. “She is just CERTAIN that someone and/or class at her high school is going to walk her step-by-step through the career choice, college choice and college application process. That because she has basically done nothing other than take the SAT that she has all the time in the world and NO ONE at her school has told her to do anything.”

    Austin, I sympathize/empathize. DD also took a somewhat similar head-in-the-sand approach pretty much through her sophomore year. While I tried to provide guidance, I also took an attitude similar to that of DD and others here, that there are plenty of good colleges that she can get into without jumping through the HSS hoops, e.g., local Flagship U, and local CC is also a safety option.

    I think/hope my expressing that to her helped her realize that if she wants to go to a HSS, which she has recently expressed, she needs to take more responsibility for her college selection process.

    OTOH, her school has a much larger college counseling staff, and starting in junior year they do some of the step-by-step walking through the process that your DD2 assumes will be provided to her.

  24. “turns out he needs glasses”

    A couple glasses stories:

    We first discovered DS needed glasses when his teacher suggested he get tested. She noticed that when she was using the white board, he would regularly get up and walk to the board, take a look, then sit down again. He was pretty amazed when he got his glasses; it had never occurred to him that he needed vision correction, even though about a third of the kids in that class wore glasses.

    Last year, DD’s math teacher made a comment about DD looking at her phone a lot in class. Turned out that DD was taking photos of what the teacher was writing and expanding it so she could see. This was just before her OD appointment at which we found she needed stronger glasses/contacts.

  25. S&M – DS2 looked adorable in all the glasses he’s tried on and is really looking forward to getting them. Until he can get contacts, or even better LASIK. The ophthalmologist cooled his jets a bit on those fronts.

    Lately he’s been watching the Office and Sherlock Holmes. It’s been really fun to watch those shows with him and see that he finally is old enough to understand (most) of them. My guys are still pre-teens, so no real teen advice from me. DH and I were angels as teens so I can’t imagine any problems with our little ones. (Snort!)

  26. OM, I hope you’re feeling better.

    I agree with HFN about the emotional vs. physical exhaustion. The other big difference is that we could try to protect DD when she was young via safety gates, school choice, yes/no to classes and play dates etc. I have found that the tables are turned in HS and we have a lot less control.

    We are trying to let her make many of her own choices about school, extra curriculars and social scene. As a result, she sometimes she ends up in uncomfortable situations. This happened on New Years Eve when she went to a party with all of her friends. She wanted to go and I think she was surprised by how many of her friends were drinking and/or smoking pot. She was avoiding parties for a while in November, so I don’t think she realized how many of her friends moved from the I’m not drinking yet camp into the drinking camp. She stayed and hung around with some kids that were not drinking, but I am wondering how much longer she will stay as a non drinker.

    I recently had to speak to one of my friends about her daughter because she takes meds for depression and anxiety. I learned that her daughter is also heavy into the pot/drinking scene and she is only 14. Many of my other friends tried to speak to her about it, and she kept telling us that she believed her daughter when she said she would never mix with her prescription drugs. I didn’t want to speak to her, but I finally did because of the prescription drugs, but she just responded with all of the kids are doing it. I just stopped talking at that point because I’ve run into this same phrase many times in the four months since DD started high school. I have been amazed at how many of my own friends went from over protective from ages 0-13 to “kids will be kids” now that their children are teenagers.

    That phrase, little kids, little problems, big kids, big problems seems to be true. The issues that teens bring with them are bigger in a more serious, and possibly life-altering, way. For example, the kinds of trouble they can find themselves in can be a matter of life and death. Cars, drugs, alcohol, sex. In our house, we try to take a step back to trust, and coach DD while she make decisions that will impact her future. It makes that playgroup problem about not sharing a toy seem very minor.

    I found protection to be easier when DD was young- car seats, high chair, safety gates, etc. When they’re teens, you can’t usually be there to protect them physically or emotionally.

  27. “I have been amazed at how many of my own friends went from over protective from ages 0-13 to “kids will be kids” now that their children are teenagers.”

    I also found that to be true, as well as your other observations. Drugs and alcohol have taken a toll among my kids’ peer groups. We’re probably within average ranges, but it seems like it’s too high when it’s kids we know.

    “This is why I’m a big believer that how they turn out is 90% genetics”

    That’s my theory,too!

  28. “I also believe that how you treat your kids will be directly reflected in how your kids treat you when the dependency relationship flips. That’s just a theory of mine; I’d be interested in any data, including anecdata, on whether or not that’s true.”

    In dealing with eldercare this year with my father, I am not totally sure this is true. My sister and I micromanaged his care quite a bit, which he began to fight back on. We had a pretty laissez faire childhood where we went to a very competitive private school, but he stayed mostly hands off (single parent). We did shift to a more hands off approach once we were out of the danger zone. Now, he drives himself, manages his own meds and appointments, etc. He has taken himself off one of his meds because of side effects and against the doctors wishes. We realized we can’t force him to take it like a dog. He was in medicine, so knows the danger.

    His doctor made a comment that he was lucky that he had 2 daughters as they tend to take care of their parents.

  29. but she just responded with all of the kids are doing it.

    I find this astounding. She has a child that struggles with depression, but she is OK with the fact that the child is taking depressives?

  30. “I have been amazed at how many of my own friends went from over protective from ages 0-13 to “kids will be kids” now that their children are teenagers.”

    You know, I think there was a certain truth to that when my brother and I were in school, too. In some cases, substitute the hyper-involved in the schools for overprotective from 0-13. And that’s involved at a time when it was kind of rare to see any parents hanging around schools. But every field day, every Halloween or Christmas or Valentine’s Party, school performance, they’re front and center organizing it. Starting clubs like Olympics of the Mind…

    And then come high school, total disaster in some cases (different families, too) Including being the one arrested for making bomb threats that shut down the school several times in the weeks after Oklahoma City.

  31. Now that I know so many of you offline and my kids would be more than slightly identifiable to that group, I don’t really feel comfortable bringing up in detail items I shared in earlier years about life with them as teens. Please, those of you with elephant memories and/or a habit of archiving posts, don’t ask me about stuff I said in the past. The teen years were trying in many ways, but I vastly preferred them to ages 1-6. Infancy and elementary were the easiest.

    As adults they are fabulous and we have great relationships. We help each other out and those that are far flung make an effort to get back to the family center. We keep in touch, but of course not with the frequency that is routine nowadays – they all left for college in the pre cell phone days. They are now 36 to 44 years old, the age of many regulars. There were long stretches of time between 18 and 30 in which one or the other didn’t have much to do with me or the others – each of the 4 followed a different path – but our love is more fierce than cozy.

    My kids were teens in an urban environment where they could get around on their own, choose their own activities, and maintain a great deal of privacy over their own lives. The last was a priority for me as a parent – my mom going through my personal writings and other invasions of my privacy are the real reason I left home at 16, not the stuff I put on the college application about being bored in school, even though that was true. With my own kids I missed a few signs of trouble, to be sure, and sometimes they had to suffer possibly avoidable natural consequences, but all in all nothing that happened to them (and there were consequences and choices that no one of you would want the kids to experience) derailed their lives permanently. And the process of “adulting” was generally over while in college or soon after, also a strong objective of mine.

    The most important thing, in my opinion, during the teen years was the development of trust. I trusted them to go out and experience life and (sometime by trial and error, when instruction and example didn’t do the job) develop good judgment. They trusted me to come to the rescue without immediate recrimination or excessive prying when they discovered their judgment was not so good (the next day’s discussion was another matter). We had rules, of course, but very few after the age of 16.

    One of my happiest memories of the teen years was when DD2, who is a cat of a different stripe and during the early separated years preferred her father, was sitting with me on the stoop one day. We were bantering and riffing on something and she looked at me and said, Mom, is this how you used to be? I nodded and the understanding spread across her face. That moment, when they see you as a full person for the first time, is priceless.

  32. Toddlers are to assembly line work as teenagers are strategic planning work. They are both work and if you get something wrong with toddlers the entire system may fall apart for a day, if you get something wrong with teenagers it may fall apart for longer.

    The answer to “how hard is it to parent teenagers?” is: it depends. It depends on the kid, the age, the milestone, etc.

    Driving – depends on the kid. We couldn’t wait for DS to get his license and we bought him a car. I was never nervous to watch him drive away, zero hand wringing. I have friends who have lost their minds over their kids driving, and in some cases I agreed with them because their kids weren’t ready and in others it was just mom and dad venting their fears. We have DD practicing driving already so that we feel comfortable when she gets her license.

    College search – depends on the kid. DS is spectacularly lazy which brought out the hand wringing in me, so that experience was not all sunshine and rainbows for us. DD is really on top of things, I have high hopes that the process will be easy with her.

    Dating – depends on the kid. We’ve said no dating until 16 which was fine with DS, DD is 15 and thinks we are terribly unfair. Sorry kiddo, mom and dad know the sh!tshow that can be teenage dating and we’re putting it off as long as we can.

    Drinking/drugs deserves it’s own post. The things I have heard make my hair stand on end.

  33. I agree that parenting teens can be more difficult, but it is not nearly as time-consuming. The difference, IME, is that you have to really be present with teenagers, because they will instantly know when you have mentally checked out and then they will shut down.

    We were blessed with three relatively easy-going boys. There was very little moodiness and drama that could not be cured with vigorous exercise or a good meal. Most of my exasperation was triggered by the mess they generated and the general noise and disorder that seemed to surround them (and which I miss now, to be honest). I really enjoyed the teenage years far more than I expected to, especially because I really enjoyed them as younger children. As others have acknowledged, it’s ironic that you spend 18 years trying to civilize kids, and then they leave.

    Now that I am around babies, toddlers, and preschoolers again, I can’t imagine how we got through those stages. Being 20 years younger probably helped.

  34. Finn – This is the second semester of her Junior year of HS. This is the time on the timeline to start to care.

    I too am amazed at how many parents who were super controlling in the 0-13 are completely hands off in high school. A parent who was hyper critical of the way every other child dressed and was hyper focused on appropriate modesty, has a daughter who is barely covered and what is covered it either skin tight or see through.

  35. July says “I also found that to be true, as well as your other observations. Drugs and alcohol have taken a toll among my kids’ peer groups. We’re probably within average ranges, but it seems like it’s too high when it’s kids we know.”

    This is worrying me. With my two boys, drugs and alcohol have not been a concern at all. Their friends, and they largely hang out with the same kids because they are close in age and interests, are so straight arrow. I don’t think either of them has ever been at a party later than 11, and mainly they do D&D or look at memes on phones. I am mainly good friends with their friends parents too, and so I have a pretty good idea what is going on with them. These parties are so boring and supervised that even the girls from the really conservative Indian and Pakistani families are allowed to attend.

    But my daughter is going to be a whole different thing because she tends to cycle through friend groups really fast – she has a really shallow concept of friendship -so I suspect she is going to end up hanging out with a lot of kids we don’t know well. And she has no impulse control. I don’t want to hear about drugs and alcohol!!

  36. To expand on my drinking/drugs needing it’s own post – the things I have heard have been primarily from my own kids.

  37. My mother was quite involved till late elementary but after that as she climbed the career ladder she had very little time just to talk on a daily basis. I did well at school and that was what my parents focused on. As long as the academics were good, they were happy and they thought I was happy but I was miserable and the teen years were the worst. I wish I had some adult to talk to. I did have my grand father around so sometimes I just asked him questions. It was a gift having him around.

  38. “This is the second semester of her Junior year of HS. This is the time on the timeline to start to care.”

    I don’t disagree; I think it’s past time to start to care. Don’t forget, I’m the guy who took his DS to tour HSS the summer after his freshman year.

    But I have to agree that DD et al have a point, that there are plenty of good schools besides HSS, and I found some comfort in that, and avoided that battle with DD.

    Fortunately, I don’t think I’ll need to fight that battle. In part because her friend group is taking interest, and in part because she’s gotten closer to some older kids, she’s now taking more interest and action, which is consistent with my parenting theory on peer groups. But it’s also in part because her school pushes the college selection process front and center during junior year, which is an advantage your DD2 doesn’t have.

  39. “I did have my grand father around so sometimes I just asked him questions.”

    I hope to be that grandfather at some point.

  40. Here’s my funny story, Louise household reality TV episode. This evening while chatting with DS he mentioned that he and DH found Juul Pods while cleaning out the garage. DS lowers his voice and says that the culprit is Grandpaw. My FIL while on his long walks tends to pick up treasures from the street as he walks. He keeps these in the garage. At some point DH decides to clean out the garage and quietly throw out his Dad’s finds, just like you would do with a 2 year old.
    Generational behavior is all reversed in our house.

  41. I was irked with him a couple years ago for not wanting to take an easy opportunity to check out a college campus. Turned out that he had read the timeline on the school district’s website and it “wasn’t time yet” for campus tours.

    If this is the incident that we had that discussion about :), this is what was actually at the bottom of it? That’s really interesting that he was so adamant about not doing the tour because of the timeline.

  42. I’m not worried about the kids drinking or doing drugs because they never go out. I wish they would socialize a bit, but they both say they are perfectly fine with seeing their friends at school, and DS now has some friends at work.

    I’m more concerned about them vaping because so many kids do it at school. I’m pretty sure DD has tried it.

  43. Are parents less upset about vaping nicotine than they would be about smoking cigarettes? Are you?

  44. I consider vaping to be equivalent to smoking and would be equally upset about either one.

  45. I’m wondering what two sinusoids have to do with parenting teenagers, especially two that are exactly the same frequency and in phase, generally identical except for color and amplitude.

    If the suggestion is, in part, that parents of teenagers and said teenagers are in phase, and that life follows a very predictable pattern of ups and downs, I would question that.

  46. DD – I would think so, too, mostly. My brother felt the same way when confronted with that situation. So much so that I got the sense that he had no idea how widespread and common it is.

    But I think a lot of people view it as more minor. I think maybe there’s a class perception element that amplified the aversion to cigarettes, and that it was drilled into our generation from kindergarten onward how DANGEROUS!!! smoking is.

  47. His doctor made a comment that he was lucky that he had 2 daughters as they tend to take care of their parents.

    IME, there isn’t a huge difference between how involved sons and daughters are with their parents care. I have plenty of patients whose sons (or other male family members) are very involved in their care.

  48. On vaping: DD is a freshman, and sometimes the two of us will go out for a walk after dinner, 3 or 4 miles so we have plenty of time to chat. She played soccer for the high school this fall, and the upperclassmen were very good to the underclassmen, there was a lot of interaction between the varsity and jv teams. She told me post-season that every varsity player (juniors and seniors) vaped except for two vaped, out of 24 total. Most cut back their usage in season. I was floored. I would have thought that the athletes would be the least likely to vape.

    As a parent, i care about vaping. It creates a new nicotine addict.

  49. I’ve heard that teen use of tobacco has increased for the first time in years because of vaping.

    July, did I send you the study about parent-child relations during the teen years that gave me the idea of the sine wave? Obviously, moods don’t fluctuate with some regularity, but there was a connect between parents and teens.

    DD, yes, that’s the one! I don’t think the guideline explains it all, but I think that when he heard my suggestion, he may have thought “huh? I don’t have to do that yet”. It was obviously a very stressful idea to him, much more so than I expected. To be honest, I’m not sure how aware he was of that timeline then, but it is proving to be useful, if a bit behind the schedule people here follow. If he did know about it, I don’t think it was his primary reason for not wanting to go–much more of a confirmation in his head that I was out of line in suggesting it.

  50. Listening to my kids, it seems that vaping is very prevelant at their schools. The teachers are always on guard for kids taking long and frequent bathroom breaks. They are also on the lookout for vaporizers that look innocent like flash drives.
    The parents were all given talks by the school administrators on on the dangers of vaping, what to watch out for.
    I was telling the kids how smoking is such a difficult habit to kick. The smokers at work are now driven to smoking in the parking deck because smoking is not allowed Immediately outside the office buildings.

  51. “smokers at work are now driven to smoking in the parking deck”
    When I see people huddled into the shade away from Florida summer sun, or under whatever awning or cover from rain they can find, or trying to stay warm in a real winter, while they have their smoke, I am often shaken by the power of addiction.

  52. “I’ve heard that teen use of tobacco has increased for the first time in years because of vaping.”

    Stupid question, I’m sure, but are you saying that teen use of actual, leafy tobacco products like cigarettes is increasing because vaping ultimately leads them to tobacco, or are you saying that the vaping is itself a form of tobacco product use?

  53. There is more nicotine in the pods that go inside a Juul or other vape device. You can choose the level of nicotine. Also, the kids can use it any time and any where since it’s so small. They take hits all day.

  54. Nearly 21 of every 100 high school students (20.8%) reported in 2018 that they used electronic cigarettes in the past 30 days—an increase from 1.5% in 2011.

    Okay, that’s a LOT. Or at least I think so.

  55. Vaping = just as bad as cigarettes. Ugh. Maybe I will have my dad tell stories about some of his patients the next time they visit (I never had any desire to try smoking, partly because of that).

    #1 is 11 so we’re not into teen territory yet, but we do get the crying fits every so often. They used to be just when she was tired but now hormones may also be a factor (on the early side of puberty).

  56. Vaping = just as bad as cigarettes.

    I don’t believe it’s nearly as bad.

    Nicotine is a chemical in tobacco leaves and is a component of the liquid in e-cigarettes. An addictive substance, it produces a pleasurable, relaxed feeling when inhaled in smoke or vapor or when ingested from chewing tobacco.

    Nicotine does not, however, cause cancer. It is one of thousands of chemicals in tobacco. Dozens of them, particularly tar, which gives cigarettes and chewing tobacco their flavor, are known carcinogens.

    The nicotine in e-cigarette liquid is extracted from tobacco and mixed with a liquid base so it can be vaporized when heated. Because e-cigarettes deliver nicotine without the tar and many of the other cancer-linked chemicals found in tobacco, they’re thought to pose less of a cancer risk than traditional cigarettes.

    https://blog.dana-farber.org/insight/2018/07/nicotine-cause-cancer/

    It is however a powerful appetite suppressant. So it’s not outside the realm of possibility that it’s a net health benefit.

  57. So both Bezos AND MMM end up announcing their divorces in (nearly) the same week. It’s a lot to process.

  58. I actually think there’s strong evidence vaping is worse for teenagers than smoking, but I’m not going to try to make the case here.

    We talk to our kids a lot about it, but we also try to listen a lot from them. I know vaping is a real problem at their school, and I’ve been interested to hear their thoughts on what the appeal is, why kids do it even when they know the risks, etc. Those have been interesting conversations.

    I don’t think our oldest has tried it, and I’m certain our youngest hasn’t. But we keep talking about it and trying to keep those lines of communication open.

  59. “It is however a powerful appetite suppressant.”

    Oh wow. I can see how vaping could be part of an eating disorder issue.

    “so I suspect she is going to end up hanging out with a lot of kids we don’t know well.”

    This is a reality for many parents. My kids had friends from other high schools and there was no way I could get to know those families. And even if you “know” the parents, you may not really know their standards and values when it comes to their children. (Like those parents who did an unexpected 180 when their kids became teens.)

  60. Another reason I’ve found teenage years easier thank baby/toddler/early elementary is because of the nature of a strong willed child. When you HAVE to control their schedule and activities, it’s a constant power struggle. When the consequences fall all on them, not you, it’s a completely different relationship.* Classic example is sports – getting him out the door on time for soccer practice as a 10 year old was a complete nightmare. As a 14 year old, I just say, let me know when you’re ready to leave. If he’s late, I care zero percent. And, he’s never, ever late.

    *This is true when you have an very internally motivated kid, like we do. We are able to be completely hands off on things like studying, homework, because he’ll do it all himself. It would be different with a strong-willed, not motivated kid.

  61. E cigarettes do NOT contain tobacco. They are a nicotine delivery system. The liquids contain many chemicals, some of which when inhaled may cause cancers but it will take decades to find out. There is federal legislation that gives the govt authority to regulate ecigs like tobacco, but the current administration pushed back the effective date. State laws vary. Commercial establishments and public spaces have generally banned vaping in the same fashion as smoking.

    If vaping had been developed in 1970 and priced competitively many would have switched because there is pleasure in the nicotine stim and not in the stink and because, addiction. Second hand vape may be harmful or aggravate others’ allergies, but no one knows. 40 years of regular nicotine without tobacco tars etc inhalation has never been isolated AFAIK as a disease factor.

    Smoking, snuff, chew are a class markers. Now that recreational mj is legal my DIL estimates that 35 percent of her mc and umc neighbors use and are no longer clandestine about it, even if the source is not the taxed dispensary. Vaping for teens is a legit parental and societal concern, but the aversion to vaping in general is greatly class based. It is hypocritical, IMO, to lump vaping with tobacco smoking and chewing for adults and the non using public as an equivalent health hazard. Pre teen and Teen use beyond experimentation of any drug that is legal for adults is concerning for physical developmental reasons, and for creating an early practice of treating laws as a something to be flouted.

  62. Actual work day yesterday, thus my silence so far.

    Before I forget, Happy Birthday to one of the kids in the Rhode household!

    As others have said in previous versions of this conversation over the years, parenting in the moment at whatever age the kid(s) is(are) often brings out the worst in us. Definitely includes me.

    Thru the tween years, I have to say everything we dealt with was well within the normal range. Not that it was carefree, but no issues stand out. Maybe just the passage of time/foggy memory.

    Only DS1 had real time-suck issues that we had to deal with…defiance for pretty much everything in/around 8th grade; being involved with a questionable set of friends 8th/9th grade; deciding the relationship between hard work, good-excellent grades, resulting rewards (privileges or merit money) was optional/not worth the effort. The friends became less questionable by 10th grade. And even today, though he is largely but not quite 100% off the payroll, it still grates on me that he has not more vigorously pursued completing his BA. I have stepped away from discussing it withj him as he has to deal with the consequences/rewards, but I’m being honest here. Other than that, he’s a good, stable, responsible 24.5yo. And his brothers are on the positive path, too. So, a win, or 3 wins. It looks like we’ve raised 3 good adults. That’s the objective, right?

  63. Ugh, I said I wasn’t going to debate it here, and I swear I’m not, but I’ll ask Meme to please reconsider this:
    Vaping for teens is a legit parental and societal concern, but the aversion to vaping in general is greatly class based. It is hypocritical, IMO, to lump vaping with tobacco smoking and chewing for adults and the non using public as an equivalent health hazard.

    Because of the highly addictive nature of nicotine, and the high doses at which it is delivered via vaping (4x as much as via a cigarette), there is strong evidence that in the teenage brain it lays a much stronger neuro-pathway to addiction in general, more so than smoking does. This is for teenagers, not fully formed adult brains. Meme, I hope you will consider that some, if not many, who are concerned about vaping are concerned for legitimate, evidenced-based health/medical reasons, and not just because we are snobs (which is how your post came across).

    And even today, though he is largely but not quite 100% off the payroll, it still grates on me that he has not more vigorously pursued completing his BA.

    Fred, your (and others such as Meme and Risley occasionally) on-going honesty about your oldest’s decisions and your frustrations with those decisions has really influenced how I think about the same for my kids, and allowed me to be more willing to accept a they-are-who-they-are approach (with bumpers in the lane, of course). I think this has made me a better parent and in turn with fewer power struggles I think my strong willed child has been able to find that internal motivation that maybe he wouldn’t have if I were also riding him. Thank you.

  64. I don’t believe it’s nearly as bad.
    …..
    but the aversion to vaping in general is greatly class based. It is hypocritical, IMO, to lump vaping with tobacco smoking and chewing for adults and the non using public as an equivalent health hazard.

    I completely disagree on both of these. As Meme said,”The liquids contain many chemicals, some of which when inhaled may cause cancers but it will take decades to find out.” We don’t know what the long term effects of vaping are, and IMO, the default position should always be “inhaling anything into your lungs is dangerous.”

    It is however a powerful appetite suppressant. So it’s not outside the realm of possibility that it’s a net health benefit.

    In the 50s and 60s, doctors suggested to women to start smoking to lose weight. That turned out to be a really bad idea.

  65. “Doesn’t he know it’s cheaper to keep her?”

    The infrequent posting schedule that MMM has adopted over the past couple of years is right around the max frequency I can put up with him and still find him endearing. I can’t imagine being married to him.

  66. It looks like we’ve raised 3 good adults. That’s the objective, right?

    Yup. I had my struggles in college so I understand things can happen to derail even smart, “good” kids on their way through. But I think it worked out pretty well in the end.

  67. Milo – I don’t read MMM regularly, just what you post. It seemed like Mrs. MMM was on board with the lifestyle, they are doing quite well for themselves and IIRC, they have one kid who was also engaged with parental ventures. I find it surprising, why now ?

  68. The school district here just added a chemical dependency counselor to the High School. He is there 2 days a week. The HS specifically stated vaping as a major concern. I think Lark hit it on the head about the neuro effects on a teenage brain.

  69. “I find it surprising, why now ?”

    We can only speculate. Sometimes it seems that one’s constant focus on self-improvement (which often includes fitness, diet, and toning for early-middle-aged males who finally decide to acknowledge the dad bod and the fact that they can’t eat like they did in college) can be a serious precursor or warning sign.

    Long ago, I used to read the Get Rich Slowly blog. I probably need to credit it with us eventually buying a house well beneath our means, as I did not have that mindset two years earlier.

    But anyway, that guy started the blog as a middle aged, fat, dorky, broke, comic-book -reading guy who worked at a box factory and had this loving, devoted wife. He started the blog, it was wildly successful, he got a book deal eventually, speaking engagements. Somewhere along the way he added fitness into it and got in shape. He was able to quit his job. He had a sizable fan base. And one day he looked at his wife and was like “WTF am I doing with you?”

    I wonder it’s not so much an issue of “WTF am I doing with you” but more like “I wouldn’t want to be married to anyone whose standards are low enough to marry the old me.”

    If you haven’t watched “The Founder” on Netflix yet, it’s an awesome movie, btw, but Ray Kroc seems to have done the exact same thing to his wife.

  70. I can’t imagine being married to him.

    Yeh, I agree. It sort of goes along with the real estate investment where he almost lost all his money. The personality that made this possible also resulted in the divorce and business failure. And obviously, without the blog he’d have long since returned to the cube mines.

  71. I mean without the blog both the business failure and the divorce would have independently sent him back to the mines.

  72. Rhett – I think your timeline might be a little bit off and/or I’m not sure that he lost ALL his money in that real estate investment. And he may have been writing the blog, but it probably wasn’t making any money at that point.

    If he had the divorce, the real estate go bust, AND if happened to have a bad couple years in the stock market, then he might have gone back to the mines. It would probably have been temporary before he struck out on his own.

  73. I think some doctors are worried about the impact on their livers, lungs and brains. Also, many of those devices can be used to inhale anything. This includes pot in a very concentrated form.

    It’s not a class thing because so many kids are doing it, and the devices come in all shapes, colors and sizes. The kids post snaps and or/videos of themselves while they’re vaping with friends. I can tell you numerous stories about kids that were tossed out of camps, activities or even school because they posted something online that shows that they were vaping. Smoking cigarettes might be a class tho g to this current gen, but not true about juicing or vaping.

  74. I “read” MMM the same way Lois does–through Milo’s posts. It seems that over the past couple of years, he’s changed from the homesteading, family-focused guy he was to more of a voracious capitalist seeking property and wealth. Exaggerating, obviously, but was there a shift in that direction? Then the question is if he went that way because things were bad at home or if his new interests turned her off/pulled her away. Maybe a mix of both.

  75. So glad that my kids are now adults and their decisions on vaping are not my responsibility.
    We didn’t have any drug or alcohol issues when the kids were at in high school, largely because, like MM’s sons, their limited socialization was largely with other, um, nerds like themselves.

    However, one of them did land in the hospital after passing out trying to “test his limits” with hard liquor at a college party, which came as a total shock both to us and the friends who ended up taking him to the hospital because it was SOOO not him. Just to warn those of you with nerdy kids that you can never be really sure, especially with strong-willed smart boys who believe that they are invincible.

  76. SM – I actually think he became much less of the voracious capitalist looking for more wealth. He started out the blog all about saving, investing, index funds, compounding, wealth, own as much as you can, own real estate, the magic of dividends. (One of my two favorite posts of his was “Your Money Can Work Harder Than You Can.”) That was the old MMM.

    He morphed into environmental stewardship, electric cars, let’s buy a vacant building downtown for the bros to hang out during the day, maybe do a little bit of investing, kick the hacky sack around, I hate sprawl…

  77. Lark et al
    As is often the case when I try to write a long essay, I do not make myself clear. I agree with all that sustained chemical and alcohol use by teens is medically dangerous and can can have life altering consequences . And the ability of vape devices to deliver any number of different drugs in intense quantities is an issue for users of any age. I am speaking only of the class based reaction to vaping as an adult choice to deliver a pleasant stimulant, which is with little harmful on a second hand basis , by people who regularly use marijuana and alcohol in quantity.

  78. Meme, I haven’t seen a class-based reaction to vaping, but obviously we live in different areas and move in different circles.

    And I disagree about the “little harm” from second hand vape. We just don’t know at this point. We were at a concert at Red Rocks last year and there were people vaping all over the place. Even though this was outdoors, we could smell it pretty strongly, which meant that were inhaling it. Maybe it’s harmless, but maybe it’s not. I’d rather not be one of the guinea pigs.

  79. And one day he looked at his wife and was like “WTF am I doing with you?”

    Did he actually say that (or a polite equivalent) or are you just hypothesizing? I’m not saying that doesn’t happen — it certainly does. And I have seen in my own circle of friends a guy who went into a huge fitness binge and then started stepping out on his wife. They’re still married, I think because he’s pretty clear that it’s cheaper to keep her. But if DH starts getting buff I’m going to keep a much sharper eye on him.

  80. I don’t really understand vaping I guess. If nicotine in cigrettes is so bad, why isn’t it bad in one of those vaping thingies?

    I am very uncomfortable with the legalization of marijuana. I suspect in 10 to 20 years, we will discover a whole host of side effects that we never realized would happen, and then everyone will be lamenting that Big Marijuana forced this evil stuff on our unsuspecting citizens, just as is happening with opioids. Marijuana can also induce really horrific panic attacks in suscpetible people – I know because I am one of those who reacts that way. I’ve seen it happen to a couple of other people in college, including one person who landed in the hospital. I know, I know, alcohol is just as bad – but we as humans have thousands of years of dealing with and ritualizing alcohol consumption.Why add something else? Oh well, it is happening so I guess I have to get used to it.

  81. And back to the vaping… Nicotine is highly addictive. Why do we want to create a whole new population of addicts? Yeah, yeah, yeah, nicotine is safe. Right, suposedly Oxycontin was safe too.

  82. I suspect in 10 to 20 years, we will discover a whole host of side effects that we never realized would happen

    Well, maybe, but tons and tons of people have been using it for decades. And we already know that it can kill motivation in some teenagers — we’ve all seen the 40-something guys who live in the parents’ basement or garage and get wasted all the time.

  83. Rocky – no, GRS didn’t say that. But for some reason, he gave the impression that it was more based on his initiation. At some point, he also sold the blog, and there was never anything worth reading at that point, it becomes so generic and without an interesting story or voice.

  84. Milo, sounds like the only thing I got “right” was that there has been a shift, but everything about the shift was way off base. Thanks for the correction!

    If I get 5% on my comment re MMM, I think I get considerably more on my comment re vaping, but still made a mistake in saying it was “tobacco” not “the bad stuff/nicotine” that is vaped.

    Mooshi, the prospect of “big Mj” is very real, and scary. I suppose it’s easier to regulate supply from just a few producers, but somehow the govt manages to keep track of craft beer and all that romaine (at least when they aren’t shut down), so I’d think pot could be the same. What I’ve never understood is why people smoke it. Yes, I know it (still usually) doesn’t have the harmful “extra” chemicals that are added to cigarettes, but it must hurt your lungs to take in such hot smoke, and we know it’s unpleasant/leads to a smokers’ cough. Why not go straight to edibles?

    Scarlett, the one time I’ve been drunk enough to throw up was the one time I drank vodka, age 30. Tossed it back by the glass. Did your son intend to go wild drinking, or was he simply as ignorant as I was?

  85. SM – it doesn’t matter, I was just curious if they were saying the vaping is the gateway to traditional tobacco products. But sounds like they mean it the other way, lumping it all in the same category.

  86. I told Scarlett a few years ago when that happened, sometimes the really good guy who would NEVER do that just wants to try being the irresponsible wild one for once.

  87. “Marijuana can also induce really horrific panic attacks in suscpetible people – I know because I am one of those who reacts that way. I” I don’t get horrifc panic attacks, but when I tried it, I recall thinking that every guy around–every single one–was hitting on me, which was really uncomfortable.

    I’m giving up on ribbing people into telling funny stories on their kids, am joining the rest of you in “discuss teen problem” land:
    My son has long predicted that he’ll be a “social drinker” who “needs” a beer to be able to dance or make small talk. We can continue to work on how to chit chat, but I think I also need to learn–fast–strategies to make sure you stay at that low level of consumption. I’ve never used it that way, but don’t think I can successfully argue against it. I don’t think it is a problem for people who can keep it to a couple of beers in an evening with friends/associates. I just don’t want him to be one of those people for whom it spins out of control.

  88. Milo, yes, the article I saw was definitely lumping it all together. Made me wonder about all those other chemicals we’ve heard are harmful in cigarettes, if there isn’t any difference. Wasn’t vaping first seen almost like a Nicotine patch, a way to get the drug without all the crap, while easing off smoking?

  89. ” I just don’t want him to be one of those people for whom it spins out of control.”

    There could likely be some times when he experiments a little and it spins a bit out of control. (Depending on your definition of “out of control” here.) I think the important thing is awareness of the dangers of driving drunk, of him pressuring a girl to go further than she’s comfortable, obviously of getting so drunk that he dies, or simply binge drinking way too often.

    I don’t know how you can instill the fear of that, but from what you share, he sounds like someone who is by no means insensitive to or dismissive toward the possibilities of bad outcomes. KWIM? Like, he usually seems to be aware of how things could turn out badly.

  90. I, too, think e-cigarettes originated as an aid to weaning and quitting. Amazing how quickly that turned around.

  91. Milo, thanks for the suggestions. We talk about those things, and about doing stupid things when you’re drunk. What I mean by “spinning out of control” is obliviousness these effects and/or addiction. He started off bike riding on the back of my bike, didn’t fall once the first time I took him out with his own (never had training wheels–that’s what being on the back of mine & on the tagalong did). But ten he wanted to get fancy–go fast, around sharp corners, stand up on the seat, etc. He fell. Eventually those times ended, and he doesn’t fall any more. As long as he sees being hammered as the equivalent of skinned hands, elbows & knees, or stitches, we’ll be OK.

  92. Vaping for teens is a legit parental and societal concern, but the aversion to vaping in general is greatly class based. It is hypocritical, IMO, to lump vaping with tobacco smoking and chewing for adults and the non using public as an equivalent health hazard.
    I am speaking only of the class based reaction to vaping as an adult choice to deliver a pleasant stimulant, which is with little harmful on a second hand basis , by people who regularly use marijuana and alcohol in quantity.

    I still don’t understand what class you say approves of vaping & which doesn’t. Sigh.

  93. “Another reason I’ve found teenage years easier thank baby/toddler/early elementary is because of the nature of a strong willed child. When you HAVE to control their schedule and activities, it’s a constant power struggle. When the consequences fall all on them, not you, it’s a completely different relationship.”

    +1

    Sorry I missed this – sick yesterday, never even got online. IME so far, the teen years have been infinitely better than the toddler years, because DD’s driving need since she was born was to be treated like an independent, competent adult, and her abilities have finally caught up to her desires. She is also a rule-follower, so we have not had problems with the “bad”/dangerous stuff. The really nice thing is that because we have given her room to do her own thing, she is voluntarily coming to me and sharing stuff about her life (which she wouldn’t have done on pain of death 4-5 years ago) — just this AM she forwarded me a screenshot of a friend’s text saying the guy she has gone out with twice called her his “girlfriend,” and she has actually asked my advice quite a few times along the way about whether he liked her, whether she should ask him out, etc. It is honestly freaking awesome — it is everything I couldn’t believe would ever happen when she was 2 1/2 and seemed so impossible for me to figure out and manage.

    DS, OTOH, is going to be more of a problem — he is of the silent-but-deadly type and is much more likely to “smile and smile and be a villain” (although he is a fundamentally nice, empathetic human being, so I am more worried about things like sneaking around, drinking, etc. than anything that is actively bad that would hurt someone). So far we’re managing ok; he had his first big meltdown a month or so ago, and I seem to have handled it ok — in fact, with his Christmas present, he wrote a note on top that said thank you for helping me through the school problem (which of course meant so much more to me than the present itself!). But his teen years are definitely going to keep me much more on my toes than his toddler years did; he was the world’s easiest baby and toddler (or maybe it just seemed that way in comparison to his sister), so almost by definition anything would be “worse” than that! I kind of see him like a young Milo — a fundamentally good guy who is just going to go his own way and periodically do stupid teenage boy stuff (and probably largely get away with it) — and so my job will be to keep the periodic stupidity within reasonable bounds.

  94. “but the aversion to vaping in general is greatly class based. It is hypocritical, IMO, to lump vaping with tobacco smoking and chewing for adults and the non using public as an equivalent health hazard.”

    Nicotine is highly addictive, just like opioids. Once people are addicted to nicotine, they become pure profit for the companies that make these devices. Why is it classist to want to prevent that from happening?

  95. Sorry I missed this yesterday, too. Oldest DS has always been my biggest concern . . . as a toddler, teen and even now, in college. Eventually, he figures out what he needs to do and how he needs to behave but it has been painful getting to that point. I’m grateful that he has a good relationship with younger DS (by 2.5 years), who in many ways is much more mature and level headed.

  96. RMS – I can see Mr. RMS wondering why you are so unhappy that he is getting in top shape ! He ! He !

  97. Thank you all for your good wishes. Fortunately my hospitalization was from a Cavernoma which is a tangle of blood vessels in the brain that bled, so technically it was a stroke.. I was most likely born with it. I was lucky my husband hadn’t left for work and my daughter was dropping her dog off for the day when it hit. I was sick to my stomach and talking gibberish. I was lucky, by the time they got me to the stroke center about 4.5 miles away, I was n longer talking gibberish but real words. They kept me from Friday morning to Sunday afternoon and I have to follow up with a neurologist for the rest of my life-small price.

    As to the question of marijuana – I am under the care of a Pain Management doctor and just asked him yesterday about marijuana in place of narcotics. He said okay but I have to stop taking the Vicodin or it will make me too happy. My kids are pushing for the marijuana – they think it will be easier on me. The doctor said he has absolutely no problem with cpd oil. My rheumatologist said give it a shot. It will help or not. I’ve decided to try the cpd oil but not the mj. They wil be treating the nerves in my back with some shots and I’ll be able to stand and walk again and not need pain meds – Yeah.

  98. Old Mom – so glad you are recovering and I hope they can do something to control your pain! Sounds like it has been a rough go. I was pleased to read that your kids had rallied around. Blessings to you.

  99. I know a number of elderly people – not that Old Mom and I are elderly quite yet ;) – who use cpd oil. There are different formulations, but when they get the right one it is a godsend.

  100. Milo, FYI, the GRS guy bought back his blog and is considering going back to the box factory.

  101. Lark and LfB – I had a very similar experience with DS who is strong-willed – and thankfully – reasonably self-motivated. His middle school years have been so much easier than his elementary school years. We went from what were daily battles to a point where I can’t even remember the last one.

    OM – glad to hear it sounds like you are recovering well and that your kids were so great.

  102. “We are able to be completely hands off on things like studying, homework, because he’ll do it all himself. ”

    Ditto for my kids, DS moreso than DD (DS is spending part of his break doing some reading to prepare for one of the classes he’ll be taking this semester).

    The thing is, I don’t know what we did to create that situation. There’s a lot of things we wanted them to do for which they had much less internal motivation, e.g., clean their rooms, practice violin and piano.

    I can only guess that somehow we communicated to them that doing well in school was a given, sort of like how my parents made it a given that my sibs and I would all get college degrees.

  103. CBD doesn’t get you high, it’s the THC. DW uses THC cream on her knees and it works wonders, but there’s just a trace of THC in it so there’s no way she’ll get high off it or have it affect her otherwise.

Comments are closed.