Reading the Fine Print

by Honolulu Mother

I have to admit, I don’t usually read the lengthy terms and conditions that one sometimes needs to click to accept for a software installation or to use an organization’s wifi. So I would have been one of the (great majority of) people blithely agreeing to manually unclog sewer pipes or paint snail shells here:

22,000 People Agreed to Clean Toilets by Logging on to Wi-Fi

For waivers for things like horseback riding or ziplining, I’ll at least skim through to make sure nothing looks out of place. But I’m not reading those particularly closely either — yes, I know there are risks, and it’s not like the terms are open to negotiation.

Are others more careful readers of the fine print? Have any other skimmers or skippers been burned by the casual approach?

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87 thoughts on “Reading the Fine Print

  1. I adjust the level of effort to the potential consequences.

    Mortgage, major reno contract, car: you’d better believe I read every word and strike out what I disagree with. It’s funny how many times people just accept my redline, but my contractors I’ve gone back and forth with several times.

    Internet deal with someone I haven’t done business with before, waivers for things where I could get hurt: skim to make sure I’m not agreeing to something stupid (e.g., Columbia Record and Tape subscriptions).

    Waivers to get online and similarly inconsequential stuff: meh. What’s the worst that can happen?

    MD is actually pretty good at that sort of anti-consumer stuff — basically, if it’s really bad, like waiving significant rights, MD requires that to be in big bold type on page 1, not buried in the fine print in the back. So my default assumption for a lot of the ticky-tack agreements is that the worse it is, the less likely it is to be enforceable anyway.

  2. I think the point is that they are not negotiable and no human being is available (sometimes ever) even if you had a question or wanted to try to negotiate. And, in some cases you have no choice, but to proceed. For example, my workplace just got a new system for timesheets, we have to sign a terms and conditions and “certify” them each month. One of the things we have to “certify” as true is not aligned with other policies in my department. Neither party is willing to make a change to align them. However, if we don’t certify, we don’t get paid.

  3. Ugh, I lost much of my Saturday because I looked at fine print. I ordered a new smartphone for middle kid – his first – because Verizon had a really good special on a particular Android model that met his needs. There were numerous glitches – my first order was inexplicably wiped out and I got email the next day telling me to call a service number to fix the order. That person could not explain the wipeout and said their systems were down so they couldn’t link the order to my account. After about an hour, she managed to recreate the order. But when I got the contract emailed to me, there was no mention of the sale price. All the payments were listed, plus the total, and they were WRONG. So then I had to call again, and that person kept passing me from rep to rep, and finally I was told that they couldn’t send me anything confirming the sale price, that it would just be magically applied. Hello? I am supposed to buy a phone based on a contract with the wrong price? The rep seemed puzzled that this would be a problem for me. Finally, after much back and forth, I got him to text me confirmation of the correct price.

  4. I once heard in passing that you want changes to your contract because that indicates it was read and approved. If something is just blindly signed, with no back and forth, that is grounds for a legal challenge. So, for example, the toilet unclogging clause isn’t actually enforceable because you didn’t knowingly agree to it. But, if you had struck it out and they had come back and gave you $100 off if you agreed and you said yes, then that is totally enforceable.

  5. @Rhett: yep. That is why I apply different approaches to different things. If you ask and they don’t agree, then you have clear evidence that what you asked for was not part of the deal, whereas if you don’t ask and the thing is buried in the fine print, you at least have a claim that you never intended that.

    The problem is that that assumes that you are willing and able to fight that in court, and will find a court that agrees with you (again, MD is pretty good on that, which gives me some comfort). But on big-dollar stuff, I’d much rather have clarity up front.

    Then again, being a lawyer, I generally assume that I’m not going to get the benefit of the doubt on any of this stuff anyway. So YMMV.

  6. For waivers for things like horseback riding or ziplining, I’ll at least skim through to make sure nothing looks out of place

    My understanding is parents can’t sign away the legal rights of their children and children can’t enter into legally binding contract. So the fact that you signed a waiver for a school field trip or for your kids to go ziplining has not legal weight. The only reason for these contracts is the hope that people will think the waiver is valid and not bother to sue even though they (on behalf of their child) have every right to sue regardless of what was signed.

    Maybe it varies by state?

    http://www.floridatrend.com/article/5904/high-court-parents-cant-sign-away-kids-rights

  7. Laura, being an attorney, you’ll know if this is true, but what I’ve been told by the people nodding their heads as I cross things out & initial them is that it doesn’t matter, the company will enforce the policy as is. I don’t argue, but do still make my changes, assuming that if it has to be argued, there will be clear sign of my non-agreement right there.

    It looks like I get a bright red new phone, thanks to a certain young man who insists that he thought the $50 fee on the next month’s bill was the only payment there was, and that he didn’t realize there was fine print to read. In his defense, you might’ve needed to click through to get it.

  8. I never read the fine print but DH definitely does so for most things we’re covered. Whenever we’ve done any work on our house he’s always had something he’s changed in the contract.

  9. The mother of a little boy we knew who fell at a climbing gym and cracked his skull, was put on a couple months of bedrest, is an attorney.I think she defends doctors against malpractice suits. Iirc, she didn’t try to sue, because of the waiver.

  10. LfB,

    Per your comments today and yesterday about UCI I bet taking a class in contract law would be very interesting. I get the impression that how it works in real life with a competent attorney and a motivated client with deep pockets it’s vastly different that how the average person thinks it works.

  11. Rhett – and then there’s how it works in different industries, regardless what the law says. In my industry, the customers (OEMs in our case as we’re Tier 1) have *all* the negotiating power, can breach at will, etc, and there’s really nothing you can do about it as a supplier. But if a supplier goes outside the lines on a single small thing–BAM! No supplier would dare a customer to court, nor can we simply stop doing business with them, as there are a finite number of global OEMs. I was so shocked by the way contracts work in this area that I called my law school contracts prof during my first week on the job to tell him all about it. He was floored.

  12. Rilsey and LfB,

    Did game theory ever come up in contract law or law school in general?

  13. “what I’ve been told by the people nodding their heads as I cross things out & initial them is that it doesn’t matter, the company will enforce the policy as is.”

    Well, of course they are going to enforce whatever their regular “policy” is. But that doesn’t mean a court will agree that those are the “legal” terms of the agreement. There are two ways you can agree to a binding contract: by words, or by performance. In my view, if I say “these are my terms,” they never reject what I say, and then they perform their part of the deal, I’ve got a pretty damn good argument that the contract is based on my terms, not theirs.

    And ITA with both Rhett and Risley. I think most of this is CYA nuisance value designed more to stave off claims. And in the business world, it doesn’t work that way at all — heck, right now we have a client who is in the hole to us by several hundred grand, and we will never sue for payment. Because even if we could get the money (and we probably couldn’t, he’d just file bankruptcy), suing your client is the fastest way to ensure that they will countersue with a malpractice claim to justify their nonpayment. Just like in the real world, I’m never going to actually sue any of these various places, barring some major crisis — I just like having a defensible position in the event there is a problem.

    On a tangentially-related note, I got a letter from lawyers employed by Kaiser, asking for a lot of info about how DS broke his foot to see if there is someone they can sue for his costs. I was instantly irrationally angry, because I am envisioning a lawsuit against the school that results in recess being outlawed. Then I realized that they are probably just looking to make sure it wasn’t a car crash or something. Still made me mad.

  14. Not in contracts law

    Per this discussion isn’t game theory at the very heart of the actual practice of contract law?

  15. Rhett – yeah, that’s basically how it works. The Darth Vader approach to contract “negotiation.”

  16. July, can you update the 30 day challenge link at the top of the page? Right now it starts off with “Done!” and I think “done? I’ve hardly started” I’m behind again already & it’s freaking me out, lol.

    LfB, that’s basically what I’ve thought. The people I’m talking to in signing these things aren’t decision-makers, so not much point trying to negotiate. On the Kaiser papers, you can say there’s no supervision at recess and all the equipment is unsafe, so it’s the end of recess or you can say Ms Rachets was there and pushed him, and that’s the end of your goodwill with the school. Have fun.

  17. @SM: I went with a generic “fell in the field at recess,” didn’t identify the school or address, and concluded with an “I *hope* this resolves your concerns. If I hear back from them, they will get the more direct “I will not help you outlaw childhood.” We pay enough for this insurance, they can damn well cover one $%!# broken foot — without looking for someone else to blame for the fact that DS is an 11-yr-old boy and so, by definition, a dumbass.

  18. I got a letter from lawyers employed by Kaiser, asking for a lot of info about how DS broke his foot to see if there is someone they can sue for his costs.

    Yeah, I was pretty annoyed by the one we got when my daughter broke her leg. I had the same reaction — what, are they looking to see if we can sue the trampoline owner or something? But in fact, once the letter was in (saying ‘landed funny while trampolining’ or something like that) all was well (that is, apart from the other administrative mess-up that I’ll spare you the details of) and there were no follow-up questions.

  19. LfB – my DD’s elbow used to pop out of place on occasion (nursemaid’s elbow). It would always happen when all minute clinics or urgent care places are closed. So we’d go to the ER and have it popped back into place. Every time it happened I would get a letter from Insurance saying they won’t pay until we answer the 5 questions on how and where the accident occurred. It was so annoying.

  20. When MIL was injured by a car (no broken bones, heavy bruising) the opposite party insurance had a number they were willing to pay. We didn’t have to sue – we just consulted a lawyer to make sure we had thought of everything. We waited to make sure, MIL had no further issues crop up from the accident and settled for the what to our minds was more than a fair amount given the injury.

  21. “I got a letter from lawyers employed by Kaiser, asking for a lot of info about how DS broke his foot to see if there is someone they can sue for his costs. I was instantly irrationally angry”

    I think I’d like it if my health insurance automatically asked this question for any medical issues that might have been caused by someone else, as long as they’re willing to accept something like, “no, it was just an accident,” as an answer.

    In general, I like the idea of accountability.

  22. Back to the OP, I’m wondering how they knew that “only one person noticed that they were (shouldn’t this be was, since it’s in reference to one person?) agreeing to clean toilets and paint snail shells.”

    My guess is that it wasn’t necessarily one person noticing, it was one person who both noticed, and took action beyond that. I.e., others may have noticed, but chose not to take any action based on noticing.

  23. On insurers outlawing childhood: my umbrella policy specifies that we should not have any trampolines or skateboard ramps in our home.

    Finn–one person noticed that all the people who signed were agreeing.

  24. “we should not have any trampolines or skateboard ramps in our home.”

    Don’t most people who have these things have them outside?

    “one person noticed that all the people who signed were agreeing.”

    I was questioning whether _only_ one person noticed, not that (at least) one person noticed, and how they knew that.

  25. Rhett I am off to SFO for my son’s wedding. In the private Jet Blue Mint pod. I’ll report back.

  26. My kids’ high school was in the news today. I believe it made national news. The kids do camps through the school at both the lower and upper school. Thankfully this morning all the camps were at the lower school. For a few heart-stopping moments I had to remember which building they were in and then another few as I waited to see if any of their friends were affected. I have been really shook up. I picked the kids up this afternoon at the normal time and they seemed fine. I’m trying to not overhug them tonight.

  27. TCM, I saw that on my newsfeed (I’m assuming you mean the gas explosion) and thought of you.

    DD, if it’s what I’m thinking of, there was at least on fatality.

  28. Rhett I am off to SFO for my son’s wedding. In the private Jet Blue Mint pod. I’ll report back.

    Yay! Can’t wait for your report!

  29. Finn – yes, it was the gas explosion. I’m pretty sure it was human error based on things I heard. What a horrible accident and I feel awful for the worker. The secretary died and an 81-year-old janitor is missing. There are 7 people in the hospital – I think 5 are faculty.

    I wonder what they’ll do for the school year. Sounds like even parts away from the explosion were damaged. School starts in 3 weeks.

    I bought the kids McDonald’s for dinner as a treat. The kids seem fine. The older one said good thing it didn’t happen last Friday when he was at the library as the library was in the part that exploded. Kid was pretty matter of fact about it. It could have been much much worse.

  30. TCN, glad they’re OK, inside & out! I think the key is for them to know that the frame in which things happen is firm, that this was an anomaly that they can expect not to experience often.

  31. Finn, I know. I was referring to Tcn’s kids. You really need to stop taking everything so literally.

  32. @TCM – Very scary! It’s so fortunate that hardly anyone was around. I’m glad your kids are fine & don’t seem too scared by the near miss.

  33. TCM – I’m glad your kiddos are okay. The first thing I thought of that it was a miracle that all the camps were out of the school at that time. I heard on the local news that it appears that parts of the remaining buildings appear to have structural damage.

    And the timing is ironic – 10 years and 1 day after 35W.

  34. tcmama — What a heart stopping experience.

    Meme — Exciting! The wedding mainly but also the flight (I guess). [Says the traveler who never travels deluxe. Maybe I’m afraid I’ll get used to it. I just booked a flight and my frills are aisle seats and early boarding to make sure my carry-on bag goes with me.)

  35. TCM – what a fright that must have been for you. So sorry about that. Thank goodness your children are okay.

    Meme – hope the wedding is wonderful. Do report back on all of it, including the swanky flight of course!

  36. ” I just booked a flight and my frills are aisle seats and early boarding to make sure my carry-on bag goes with me.”

    Same here! I’d rather spend my money on the actual vacation, instead of getting to my location. That said, I love Memes comments that it’s ok to spend money. I need this constant reminder.

  37. @TCM – It made the local news here last night as well. Of course it is all over my social media from MN friends. It’s been 10 years and a day since the bridge collapse? I can’t believe it’s been that long already.

    I am interested in the Jet Blue pod report too! I’ve never flown Jet Blue. The routes from Chicago were kind of meh last time I checked. And I like flying out of Midway if I can, so That often means Southwest.

  38. @TCM: I am so sorry, how terrifying. Glad your kids are ok, and hope they continue to be able to process it well — that’s a big deal.

    On a happier note, I am sitting on the comfy couch next to the newest member of the family, world’s sweetest three-legged rescue kitty (currently “Shelly” thanks to some uninspired folks at the shelter). Poor little kid is still figuring out how to get around (she just got the stitches out Tuesday, when we picked her up, and she’d been in a cage the whole time at the shelter, so this is her first real experience moving around without the leg), plus of course adjusting to a whole new house and two other cats who aren’t particularly happy to see her. So we are keeping her in the kid play area for now and letting her and the existing cats hiss at each other through the French doors. But she has already figured out how to jump up on the couch and get down under her own power without falling on her head too much, and she is very happy to come sit with us and be petted and petted and petted.

    It’s the phantom limb thing that gets me — she’ll reach down to groom her leg, and it’s not there, and she sort of doesn’t know what to do. Kills me every time. But she’s very young (can’t even be a year old, her head and legs are disproportionate to her body), so I know that before long this will just be normal, what she’s always known.

  39. July – I am so happy to hear that about UCI admissions. I guess I am sensitive to the whole admissions process because home country admissions were always stress inducing even if you made the cut off (making the cut off was in itself an academic grind and mega stressful)

  40. July, no snark intended: what appeals to you about an aisle seat? I always the people who liked them had long legs they wanted to stretch out up the aisle a bit.

  41. DD, I agree with you that constantly putting the rest of us through a meat grinder of “that could’ve meant this” isn’t funny but really, the only kids to think about in a disaster are those of your acquaintance?

  42. but really, the only kids to think about in a disaster are those of your acquaintance?

    You did the exact same thing (your 7:27 post), so why are you getting on me about it?

    July, no snark intended: what appeals to you about an aisle seat?

    I like them because I can get up whenever I want without disturbing other people.

  43. I used to like the window seat but now prefer the aisle. It makes getting to the toliet easier. Also, as I am small in stature, many people think I must be able to squeeze by them and won’t move enough or at all.

  44. We’re thinking about traveling to Orlando in the Fall for a long weekend that coincides with one of the school’s teacher workdays. Because the trip will be a little shorter in duration, DW looked into flying. Even finding “good” deals, even accepting a multi-leg route through Atlanta, we can’t get it below $1,500 round trip for the five of us. That’s before you add airport/Spothero parking, and either a rental car or airport shuttles. All that added expense to travel in a manner that I hate. So if we go, we’ll drive and load the car with DVDs, books, an iced cooler, and stay overnight along the way.

    But then there’s the issue of Disney/Universal pricing. We’ve discussed this on here before, but those parks really don’t want three-day visitors (or, if they do, regular fare is a bit over $100 per person per day, so over $500 a day in park tickets to stand in long lines). I think one deal DW found essentially had eight days for the price of four days. But if you don’t necessarily want to go four eight days, you’re SOL. And if you want the main Harry Potter attraction at Universal, you’re required to secure admission to BOTH of their parks, because apparently a single ride transits between the two.

    DW is still looking, along with her mom, which is fine, but I immediately get turned off by this crap.

  45. Milo,

    I’m getting $1352 for nonstop Washington National to Orlando for 2 adults and 3 kids on Jetblue. Or would Dulles be closer?

  46. Milo – I have been avoiding the Disney trip (my son has been begging) and we live an easy 6.5 hour drive away. We went with my oldest when she was 3 and our friends planned the whole trip down to the minute of when we were going to get on each ride so we just had to show up. Thinking about taking three kids down there and having to plan it myself just sounds god awful.

    TCM – I would be a mess even if my kids were safe. I’m so glad you are all safe and sound.

  47. Rhett – We’ll check JetBlue for the specific dates, but that’s still $1352. And I really don’t mind driving at all. I enjoy it, actually.

    Atlanta – The planning is the part that I can’t stand. I don’t mind it at all for other trips, but the constantly changing policies on Fast Passes and the level of detail required just makes me angry at the whole system. That’s when I become incredulous thinking how much better it would be to rent a beach house, take a kayaking expedition, etc.

  48. “Atlanta – The planning is the part that I can’t stand. I don’t mind it at all for other trips, but the constantly changing policies on Fast Passes and the level of detail required just makes me angry at the whole system. That’s when I become incredulous thinking how much better it would be to rent a beach house, take a kayaking expedition, etc.”

    Exactly! I mean, the major reason I go on vacation is because I don’t have the bandwidth to deal with 600 things and am losing my shit and need a break from all of that stress. So trips that require logistics that are even more complex than my daily life completely defeat the purpose.

    The recent Alsace trip was perfect in this regard. I found the place in 10 minutes online; my mom got the plane tix as my Christmas present. And then while we were there, my mom did the planning of what to do and the driving, and my sister did all of the talking, so I just got to go along for the ride. Freaking awesome.

  49. Milo, hear you. Do the kids really want to go to Disney or would another 3 day get away so ?
    As I get older, the Meme trips sound more and more appealing.

  50. We went Jet Blue direct to Orlando last year. Maybe from BWI? I can’t remember. My kids loved Disney and I thought it was really fun. So organized! Use a travel agent. They do everything.

    TC – terrifying! Glad your kids are ok.

  51. “Do the kids really want to go to Disney or would another 3 day get away so ?”

    I mean, yeah, kids are always up for Disney. But DW really wants to take the older two to Universal/Harry Potter, and she wants the youngest to have a Magic Kingdom visit right around this age.

    What can I say? She puts up with my boat obsession.

  52. Milo,

    Google says it’s 12 hours to drive to Orlando. Would you leave Thursday at 3pm and get there at 3am and leave at 10 am Sunday to get home at 10pm?

  53. Leave Thursday at 3, drive til about 10 or 11, stay at a Country Inn and Suites, have breakfast the next morning, drive the rest of the way Friday morning and either do the afternoon at the park or just relax at the hotel pool. Saturday, Sunday, Monday at the parks. Maybe come back Tuesday, or Tuesday at the parks, come back Wednesday.

  54. Milo,

    Also at 846 miles at the IRS rate of $0.535/mile it’s $905.22. I’ll give you parking at the airport and the shuttle to Disney or rental car but that cost gap isn’t nearly as large as you’re assuming. (Can you Uber XL between Disney and Universal rather than rent a car? I assume you can.)

  55. Milo,

    Ah, I didn’t realize you had so much flexability in the dates. Leaving on Tuesday rather than Sunday the price for 2 adults and 3 children nonstop DCA to MCO (taxes and fees included) drops to $807. Including parking at the airport it’s cheaper to fly.

  56. “I would so much rather fly than drive for 2 days!”

    I know, but I love road trips, and my kids have gotten well accustomed to them now. They read a ton, and alternate movie picking.

    And we’ve gotten more efficient over the years. My rules are to always pack a big cooler with plenty of ice and drinks that are kind of exciting, like mini Cokes, and Yoo-hoo boxes. That way we can stop for lunch or dinner, use the bathroom, get food to go, and don’t even pay for any drinks. You can cover so much more ground this way.

    And while not applicable to Disney, it lets us bring a lot more gear, like good bikes, which then changes what you can do on vacation. (Yes, you can fly and rent bikes, but they’re not going to be as good, they’ll be expensive, and you probably can’t even do five bikes on a rental car, unless, maybe, they also rent a rack, but only a rack that goes on a trailer hitch can carry that many…)

  57. It’s amazing to think it’s cheaper to fly a family of 5 to Orlando than drive.

  58. hmm. I see. This could work. I guess JetBlue doesn’t play the kayak or Priceline game? I knew Southwest didn’t, or didn’t think that they did.

    One iteration gets it down to $900 some dollars, although that means flying out of Reagan and coming back through BWI, but a train ride can solve that.

    I’ll show this to DW. Thanks.

  59. Milo,
    if you do end up flying, make sure to sign everyone up for Jet Blue or whoever’s frequent flyer program, if not already. I’ve gotten TSA precheck my last few flights and I do not fly very often any more, so it has to be an arrangement between the airlines and TSA increasing my chances, so since FF plans are free it’s worth the chance.

  60. “what appeals to you about an aisle seat?”

    I’m claustrophobic. A window seat, especially in a three-seat row, makes me a little crazy.

  61. Milo, I’m totally with you on the dislike of Disney. We went twice with the kids, the first time was a full week thing about 11 years ago, so the planning wasn’t totally crazy (you still got the fastpasses at the park, etc) and the pricing was somewhat reasonable with a 6 day pass. We went again about 5 years ago and it was a shorter trip so the pricing was insane. We had much more fun at Universal. We decided that was our last trip to Disney.

    And I would totally fly instead of drive if you can get airfare for under $1,000.

  62. Rhett, I often find that it’s cheaper for the two of us to fly than for me to drive. That said, I still haven’t picked our flights for the weekend of Aug 18–better get going, or they won’t be cheap! My parents are oddly not on board with this, and insist on driving 18 hrs every spring and fall. The argument that you can take more in the car fell apart when they found out about shipping a vehicle. Their friends say they fill them to the gills. My sisters and I stress and track their progress every time. It’s the most communication and cooperation I have with them all year, which gives me hope for those nearing-the-end conversations.

    Louise, I suppose it would be considerate of my seatmate for me to sit in the aisle seat, because I do usually have to go during a flight. But how do you sleep without leaning up against the wall of the plane? If I can’t be on my stomach; I want to at least slouch way over to one side.

  63. When we go to Disney, my son complains endlessly about all the details, insists that I do that stuff because I like setting it all up. To quote his favorite comic: “Wrong!” We have two more park days to use up by mid-Oct. We’re waiting and hoping it will be cooler and less busy right before our deadline. Bioluminescence is a bucket list item for me, and he’s recently discovered he likes roller coasters, so I’ll do fastpass for the Animal Kingdom (Pandora is a stopgap, in case I die before I can go see the creatures in their habitat), but for MK, Magic Mountain is probably the only one I’ll do. He loves little kids, so we’ll go loiter around Dumbo & the teacups, trying not to look creepy. After our experience at Holllywood Studies earlier this year, I’m imposing a 4-hr minimum stay in the park because come on!

  64. But how do you sleep without leaning up against the wall of the plane?

    I can’t figure out how any sleeps on a plane, period (aside from those lie flat bunks in first class). The only way I can ever do it is on a red-eye with a sleeping pill. I don’t understand how people can fall asleep on a flight during the day.

  65. “I used to like the window seat but now prefer the aisle. It makes getting to the toliet easier.”

    You also have to get up every time one of the people between you and the window, or in the middle seats depending on which side of the aisle you’re sitting, want to get out of their seats.

    I used to think of this as a bug, but since I’ve learned about travelers’ thrombosis, I look at it as a bit of a feature.

  66. “over $500 a day in park tickets to stand in long lines”

    Do you think the lines will be long then?

    A lot people from here go to Disneyland in October because public schools have a break then which coincides with low season.

  67. “So trips that require logistics that are even more complex than my daily life completely defeat the purpose.”

    Thus the ski vacations.

  68. “TSA precheck”

    I’ve heard that people with clearance and/or a military ID can enter information from that into their frequent flier profiles so they’ll get TSA precheck.

    Perhaps that’s an option for Milo.

  69. Do you think the lines will be long then?

    A lot people from here go to Disneyland in October because public schools have a break then which coincides with low season.

    That just means the lines aren’t as long as they are in the peak times. I’m sure they are still long. (We can debate all day about what we each consider to be “long” lines.)

  70. What Denver said. Any line is a line on vacation for which I’m paying $500 a day.

    Spothero is great for Reagan airport. Puts you right in Crystal City, usually. It’s also been good for us in NYC — significantly cheaper than the regular daily rate for the garage.

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