2017 Politics open thread, July 23-29

What’s new in politics?

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92 thoughts on “2017 Politics open thread, July 23-29

  1. I am surprised it is only half. It has nothing to do with policies and everything to do with different values and worldview.

  2. Interesting that they found that Republicans were more likely to know Democrats. Where my sister lives, she has never dared express her political views, fearing for her job (yes, she works at a college, no not all colleges are bastions of liberalism) because she is not a Republican nor an evangelical. Her town is definitely a place where Republicans do not associate with the few Democrats there.

  3. I am friendly with some very conservative people, mainly from adoption circles and so on. We even discuss politics but try to keep it light. I always thought I could understand and even admire some of the worldview of conservative evangelicals, until Trump came along. That broke my illusions of what I thought was the integrity of evangelicals (though to be fair, several of my evangelical friends, as well as the neighborhood Mormons, sat it out because they couldn’t vote for Trump)

  4. Trump is not an evangelical nor is he conservative. He is a wierd mish mash of anti immigrant and pro blue collar views with a large dash of celebrity. He could have just as easily run as a Democrat in a different time.

  5. Trump is not an evangelical, but white evangelicals overwhelmingly voted for him. The real Republicans I know all stayed home or voted for HRC (which I am sure was a difficult thing to do).

  6. My FIL was relating a story about him looking for some conservative author’s book at the library in Rhode Island and the librarian sputtering in horror “You’re a Republican!” and him saying yes and she said “But you seem so nice!”

  7. From the WaPo link: “Part of the reason for the imbalance is likely that liberals tend to live in more homogeneous places and don’t even associate with conservatives. Another Pew study last year showed a whopping 47 percent of people who planned to vote for Clinton didn’t have any close friends who were Trump supporters. By contrast, 31 percent of Trump supporters said they didn’t have any friends who backed Clinton.”

    The ironic aspect of this situation is that many liberal Democrats take pride in their tolerance.

  8. “The real Republicans I know all stayed home or voted for HRC”

    Many I knew voted for Johnson.

  9. Many I knew voted for Johnson.

    If only he hadn’t been such a moron. A bright libertarian candidate could have made a dent in the outcome.

  10. Anyone else think that Trump’s Boy Scout speech was completely inappropriate? The last time I checked, the Boy Scouts were not a Republican organization and the Jamboree is not a political rally for the GOP.

  11. MM – I just read the transcript. What. the actual. F.??? It’s like his speech writer took the day off. Every time he circled back to BSA values I thought “yes, on track… rah rah rah…” and nope. Diversion down to crazy town.

    The only thing he knows how to do is campaign. He can’t even boost a bunch of young men and their parents up. He can’t encourage the boys to live Boy Scout values throughout their lives. He had a history of Presidential speeches to use as inspiration. From FDR all the way through Obama. Reflecting on that history alone would have made a wonderful speech.

    It looks like enough parents complained that the BSA is distancing themselves from the speech.

  12. I have a few FB friends who are Scout moms, and they are OUTRAGED. They feel that the whole ethos of the Scouts was violated and that the BSA statement does not go nearly far enough.

  13. I don’t agree with repealing Obamacare, but I hope Republicans repeal it and then own whatever the replacement is. I’m sick of them running on the promise of repeal. Time to show us how much better things will be on their plan.

  14. I am kind of enjoying that Sessions seems to just be sitting at his desk saying, “Nope. Not moving.” It is almost like Trump forgot that he appointed him. Trump is so embarrassing.

  15. There has been quite a bit of conservative pushback against Trump’s campaign against Sessions. So he may feel he has enough base of support to survive. Also, I suspect Sessions feels he was in the right to recuse himself, so he may be willing to stand firm

  16. Scarlett, they are KIDS. They probably felt they had to. It was disgusting.

  17. The whole point of the Boy Scouts is to teach boys not to grow up to be like Trump. There is a whole lot of outrage in my son’s pack.

  18. I have to say, his little anecdote about Levitt was heartbreaking. And there was a lesson in there about remaining active, keeping momentum going and maintaining passion for your chosen work, but Trump lost it in between the politicking. The man needs to follow his speech writers to the letter.

  19. “If only he hadn’t been such a moron. A bright libertarian candidate could have made a dent in the outcome.”

    ITA. This was my biggest disappointment about the election; it was a chance for the Ls not just to make a dent, but to take a big step forward in the national consciousness.

    Someone like Paul Tsongas could’ve provided a real option.

  20. “The whole point of the Boy Scouts is to teach boys not to grow up to be like Trump.”

    I totally agree with this. Both my kids are boy scouts. The whole point of the organization is to instill character, honor, and a commitment to service. Trump possesses none of those virtues.

  21. I have family at the Jamboree. From what they have said is that the Scouts were so happy to have a President attend (Obama didn’t attend the last two) that they didn’t care what was said. The Jamboree is a very big deal to the Boy Scouts. The child I know there said it awesome to be so close to the President and have him speaking directly to us. He is 13. He has no idea what his ramblings even met. The adult I know there just kept telling me that Obama never showed up. When I pressed him on how it felt to hear Trump throwing Eagle Scouts on his administration under the bus, he had no comment. From my family member’s view, it was all about doing something Obama never did.

  22. “Someone like Paul Tsongas could’ve provided a real option.”

    I voted for Tsongas in the primary against Bill Clinton! But he was too much a technocrat for our times.

  23. Obama spoke by video, as did Eisenhower in 1953. Eisenhower did speak in 1960 – was he still president? George W Bush spoke by video the first time he was invited, but showed up the second time. Nixon spoke for Eisenhower as VP, but I don’t see any record that he spoke as President. Reagan never spoke, but Nancy spoke for him because he was in the hospital getting cancer treatment (? didn’t know about that?).
    Most of the two term Presidents were invited more than once. Obama was only in his second year when he did the video. Was he not invited a second time?

  24. red meat for the base. Meanwhile, I am busily calling senators about the ACA

  25. Economists are making the same observation my Dad made 5+ years ago- it’s hard to get a fork truck driver who can pass a drug test.

  26. decriminalization of marijuana is on a collision course with employer policies

  27. Economists are making the same observation my Dad made 5+ years ago- it’s hard to get a fork truck driver who can pass a drug test.

    This is DH’s observation too. Forklift drivers get wasted, drop stuff on people, get fired, grieve it to the union, and get reinstated. It’s irritating, and kind of bizarre how wasted forklift drivers are.

    A friend’s husband also works with forklift drivers and hates ’em.

  28. To Mooshi’s point, the company I work for has had a difficult time filling entry level, and some midlevel positions due to failed drug tests. They are located in the Northwest.

  29. decriminalization of marijuana is on a collision course with employer policies

    Only because the THC stays in the bloodstream for so long. Alcohol is legal but you can be fired for being drunk at work. If you’re wasted at work you can be fired for that even when weed is legal. The problem is when the blood tests don’t match the actual state of consciousness.

  30. I mentioned my city in today’s post, and I wanted to comment on the police shootings that have happened here. The shooting of a white, Australian woman by a black, Somali immigrant police officer is horrifying and awful. But what makes me even more heartbroken about it is the racism that it shows in our system. If she had been shot by a white police officer, I think the police union would have closed ranks around the officer, but that isn’t happening this time. Someone called her the most innocent victim or some such thing, which also reeks of racism. But maybe good will come out of it and will bring about changes in how police handle confrontation and guns.

    This latest shooting also highlights class. It happened in a very nice part of town, so I think some people are called to action because now they realize this can happen to anyone and isn’t isolated to bad parts of town.

  31. tcmama – Several of my friends noted that your city’s police chief was quick to take responsibility and step down after the Australian women’s death, but not in connection with other similar deaths by the police in your area where the victim was not a white women.

  32. Yeah, it happened in a well-to-do area. The type of area where the Nextdoor posts are about cats being let outdoors and hurting bunnies and birds. The Philando Castile shooting wasn’t in Minneapolis. The Jamar Clark shooting was in the poorer, minority area of town. My FB feed was full of upset posts over all the shootings, but there is action happening now. I think the police will use this officer as a sacrificial lamb and argue that this was due to a bad officer and not reflective of a bad culture.

    I have a lot of respect for the police and are doing the best they can, but I also think there are serious issues that need to be addressed.

    I keep thinking of the British crime shows I watch and how DH always comments on how they don’t even carry guns.

  33. “the company I work for has had a difficult time filling entry level, and some midlevel positions due to failed drug tests. “

    It’s not just drug tests. My nephew got a job with the local electric utility, which has a reputation for paying well, largely because he was the only applicant who did everything asked of him as an applicant, e.g., showing up for an appointment with HR, a written test, and an interview.

  34. My Nextdoor region includes the neighborhood of the Australian women. It has definitely shook up the area. Lots of posts now about “is that a gun shot or fireworks I’m hearing?”

    Without bodycams I don’t know if we will every understand what happened, but I think most people are beginning to realize that the police might be more scared responding to calls than the people making the calls….a few weeks earlier a police officer shot at some dogs that seemed excessive.

    And Kerri, the police chief and the mayor have a long history of not getting along. I was not surprised that she resigned/was fired almost immediately.

  35. “I was not surprised that she resigned/was fired almost immediately.”

    The issue is why she didn’t resign earlier over other incidents. What’s the difference – oh here a white woman was killed. That is how this is perceived. (Personally, I don’t know why she resigned now and not earlier. Maybe this was a last straw. Maybe she could get away with hanging on over the other incidents and for this one should couldn’t.) And when there’s a history of these incidents with these results (not just in that location but speaking more generally) its hard to continue to say, oh no, that perception is wrong.

  36. Finn – my dad worked retail his whole life. His mantra – you get what you pay for. He had the hardest time finding employees and keeping them. The good ones move on to jobs with better pay.

  37. Finding good help:
    Middle DS related a story about one of his school roommates. Thru connections the kid got a paid internship at a financial services firm all lined up for this summer (background: his dad works in the industry and so he’s following in the family line of business) in a large Midwest city. HR calls and says ok, all good to go, you just need to do the drug test. Kid then declined the offer because “he knew he wouldn’t pass the drug test.” (No sympathy from my kid, even though it’s his friend & hs classmate).

  38. Things are getting fun! Military says no implementation of transgender ban for now, Scarmucci is off the rails within hours of taking over and is battling Reince, Trump thinks he is going to veto a veto-proof bill, Russia!, health ins disaster, Sessions is still refusing to budge and Tillerson is reported to be considering jumping ship. There is so much craziness that it is hard to keep up.

  39. Birdie – you missed one:

    From the article:
    The Department of Justice has filed court papers arguing that a major federal civil rights law does not protect employees from discrimination based on sexual orientation in a case now being considered by a New York appeals court.

    Although another federal agency, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, filed its own brief supporting Mr. Zarda, the Justice Department brief claimed that the E.E.O.C. was “not speaking for the United States.”

  40. Fred – we have law student interns occasionally. We give them at least 2 mos. notice that a drug screening is mandatory.

  41. It is hard to keep up! I had read about that, but it barely registered because Sessions being Sessions.

  42. “Clay Aiken, a onetime contestant on “The Celebrity Apprentice,” recently told an interviewer that Trump actually “didn’t decide who got fired on ‘Apprentice,’” and had to be fed his lines by producers.”

    Shocking I tell you. Almost as though we should have realized maybe it was a bad idea to elect an actual reality tv star as our President.

  43. “The sole question here is whether, as a matter of law, Title VII reaches sexual orientation discrimination,” the brief said. “It does not, as has been settled for decades. Any efforts to amend Title VII’s scope should be directed to Congress rather than the courts.”

    Exactly.
    There are plenty of examples of craziness in the Trump administration, but this is simply not one of them.

  44. Graham and McCain and Johnson are on tv right now saying they will vote for the skinny repeal if they get assurance that it won’t pass. Our entire government is an idiocracy.

  45. And Mooch is on the warpath against Preibus
    ““Reince is a fucking paranoid schizophrenic, a paranoiac,” Scaramucci told New Yorker writer Ryan Lizza in a Wednesday phone call.
    “They’ll all be fired by me,” he said of the White House communications staff. “I fired one guy the other day. I have three to four people I’ll fire tomorrow. I’ll get to the person who leaked that to you. Reince Priebus — if you want to leak something — he’ll be asked to resign very shortly.””
    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/344215-scaramucci-priebus-is-a-paranoid-schizophrenic-will-be-asked-to

  46. “I’m not Steve Bannon, I’m not trying to suck my own cock.”

    Okey dokey then.

  47. No, Kerri, it’s not, because the Civil Rights Act quite clearly does NOT mention sexual orientation. The Obama EEOC twisted the plain meaning of the language of the statute in order to please the gay rights base. THAT was the crazy part. Congress is the one to expand the CRA to cover sexual orientation.

  48. Scaramucci, the head of communications, didn’t confirm that his conversation with a reporter would be off the record? What an idiot.

    Nice mouth on him too! That’s vulgar even by NYC subway standards.

  49. I don’t understand how I live in a world where my sorority, run by a bunch of 19-20 year olds, was a more dignified, organized, finely tuned machine than the US government. I wouldn’t sit next to some of these clowns on the bus, and my bus-neighbor standards are fairly low, and they’re in positions of tremendous power.

    i am worn out by the crazy.

  50. Scarlett, Judge Posner obviously disagrees with your interpretation.

    http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/rssExec.pl?Submit=Display&Path=Y2017/D04-04/C:15-1720:J:Wood:aut:T:fnOp:N:1942256:S:0

    It’s true that even today if asked what is the sex of plaintiff Hively one would answer that she is female or that she is a woman, not that she is a lesbian. Lesbianism denotes a form of sexual or romantic attraction; it is not a physical sex identifier like masculinity or femininity. A broader understanding of the word “sex” in Title VII than the original understanding is thus required in order to be able to classify the discrimination of which Hively complains as a form of sex discrimination. That broader understanding is essential. Failure to adopt it would make the statute anachronistic, just as interpreting the Sherman Act by reference to its nineteenth-century framers’ understanding of competition and monopoly would make the Sherman Act anachronistic.

  51. Tcm– it was just a brief encounter.

    We were on the subway from the Senate building to the Capital with one of our junior senator’s staffers, about to get a tour, and she was with our senior senator waiting to take the subway back.

    We all recognized our senator, but DS recognized yours and kinda went fanboy on her. She seemed quite amused– I don’t think that’s to sort of response she’s accustomed to from teenage boys– and gave him a hug.

  52. Last night was so dramatic. Couldn’t have written a better plot! McCain saves everything in the 11th hour. Played the long game against Trump.

  53. Is it big corporations/all corporations that have drug tests? I have never had to have one except for my life insurance exam, ditto for DH (he used to work at I-banks back in the day).

  54. “I’m not Steve Bannon, I’m not trying to suck my own cock.”

    Does anyone else watch Veep?

    And if I do win, I will have my administration come to your shitty little district and shake it to death like a Guatemalan nanny. And then I’m gonna have the IRS crawl so far up your husband’s colon, he’s gonna wish the only thing they find is more cancer. So can I count on your vote, or do I need to shove a box of White House M&Ms up your stretched out, six-baby vag?” President Selina Meyer

    PS That’s basically what Trump did to try and threaten Sen. Lisa Murkowski.

  55. “Is it big corporations/all corporations that have drug tests?”

    I had to take one for the two big old school corporations that I worked for – manufacturing and CPG. The smaller, private retail company did not drug test except under suspicion of abuse. And advertising – LOL. They don’t drug test and vehemently oppose it if asked to by clients.

    I was kind of stunned that McCain voted No. Can we work on a bipartisan centrist solution now? No? Pipe dream?

  56. Actually, I think McCain s wrath is reserved for McConnell et al. He loves the Senate and the GOP of his long career and is disgusted. He voted to allow debate so that the leadership could fail with all its bad bills. He obviously has nothing to lose, so he provided cover for Graham and others. The ACA requires so much eexecutive fiat to limp along and function that Trump can probably cause the non Medicaid part to fail outside of MA CA and a few other committed states, so no rejoicing here

  57. L, chemical and nuclear industries both require random drug testing. At Mr WCE’s nuclear and my chlorosilane plants, alcohol consumption is prohibited within 12 hr before your shift, and many operators work 12 hour shifts on consecutive days. My contract company required a drug test, I think many companies require them because they’re cheap and easy. Some insurers require them for worker’s compensation, I suspect.

  58. After all, employers now routinely use credit checks to screen potential hires, which eliminates a lot of otherwise “worthy” folks who fell o hard times. However I had to take drug tests twenty five years ago. No poppy seed muffins was the advice.

  59. “The ACA requires so much eexecutive fiat to limp along and function that Trump can probably cause the non Medicaid part to fail outside of MA CA and a few other committed states, so no rejoicing here”

    Right – that’s why I want them to actually work together to tweak it, but it seems like a pipe dream. I’m not sure that I’m for single payer (depends on a lot of the details), but I would like a functioning market to purchase insurance.

  60. The ACA requires so much eexecutive fiat to limp along and function that Trump can probably cause the non Medicaid part to fail outside of MA CA and a few other committed states, so no rejoicing here

    Why won’t republicans take the fall for that? It’s not like they have anything better to offer.

  61. I don’t really like Peggy and the sexism that oozed from her little piece wasn’t cool, but it makes me smile to think how it will get under Trump’s skin.

  62. So, in 6 months, the following have resigned or been fired:

    National Security Advisor
    FBI director
    Communications Director
    Press Secretary
    Chief of Staff

    Only the best people!

    I bet Sessions is freaking out.

  63. Moochy was right. So does that mean that Steve Bannon really does, um, the other thing?

  64. According to the NY Post, Scaramucci’s wife is filing for divorce due to “his naked political ambition”.

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