Impact of Social Acceptance on Food and Lifestyle Choices

by Louise

The article below caught my eye. We now drink more bottled water than soda. A big part of this has to do with how we as a society now perceive soda. Sure we still drink it but at least among the Totebag set it is a once in a way item (or banned completely) rather than drunk daily.

What food or lifestyle habits have you made changes to over the years. Any items you have given up due to social pressure?

Soda Loses Its U.S. Crown: Americans Now Drink More Bottled Water

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194 thoughts on “Impact of Social Acceptance on Food and Lifestyle Choices

  1. At one time I was drinking oceans of Diet Coke. Maybe two or three years ago I switched to Pellegrino and Gerolsteiner where available. I’ve also tried LaCroix but I don’t know if it doesn’t have enough minerals in it but you drink it and drink it and it just doesn’t quench your thirst.

  2. It’s also “taboo” to eat at fast-food restaurants, but I for one see nothing wrong with it as PART of a diet. There are plenty of things that are undoubtedly just as bad for me but masquerading as ok (i.e. Wegmans made right before your eyes Caesar Salad).

    I pretty much stopped drinking Coca-Cola when my then-new-to-me dental hygienist started the exam with “Coke or Pepsi?” I still LOOOOVE Coke and have been craving it lately what with all the ads for in during the NCAA tournament basketball games. But I have not given in yet. When I do, it will be Mexican Coke which is made with cane sugar vs high fructose corn syrup. More costly, yes, but worth every penny.

  3. It looks like soda consumption peaked in 1998.

    I’m a little surprised that its decline in the past two decades has been so steady and pronounced. I remember a guy who used to bring to work a one-liter bottle of Mountain Dew every morning and treat it like a single serving. He may have even bought a second one during the day, but let’s assume he just kept it to the one. Assuming he also had one on the weekends, that’s 365 liters, or 96 gallons per year. That’s just under twice the 1998 peak average for all Americans, so he wasn’t quite the outlier I thought. I think a lot of people must have been buying daily Super Big Gulps.

    I buy Coke, in its purest form, in the small 10 oz cans. I don’t quite drink one per day, but then I will get a Coke from the fountain at some places like McDonald’s, so 10 ozs per day is a fair estimate. That equals 28 gallons per year, so 73% of the current average.

    Despite what the chart implies, I wouldn’t presume that people are replacing soda with bottled water. Rather, I think they’re replacing soda with heavily sweetened coffee drinks and sweetened iced tea, and I think they’re replacing tap water with bottled water.

  4. “I pretty much stopped drinking Coca-Cola when my then-new-to-me dental hygienist started the exam with “Coke or Pepsi?” ”

    Eh, the hell with them. When I go to the dentist, the hygienist will often say “Do you drink a lot of coffee or tea?”

    “Iced tea.”

    “Yeah, see I can tell with some of the staining on the inside of your bottom teeth.”

    And I think to myself, “Yeah, that’s why I’m here for a cleaning.”

    I mean, if I go to the car wash, they’re not going to say “Oh, you were out driving in the rain? Yeah, I can tell. You know all the dirt and grime on the road gets splashed onto the paint, I can see it!”

    Just clean the car/teeth, thanks.

  5. Despite what the chart implies, I wouldn’t presume that people are replacing soda with bottled water

  6. I’ve heard of the coffee change is due to the use of K cup brewing machines. A household, or an office, is much less likely to brew a pot of coffee. Instead, everybody brews their own 8 ounce cup. It may not be that coffee consumption is actually down, it may be that wasted coffee in the bottom half of the pot has disappeared.

  7. In 1998, my household of two people was going through four cases of diet soda per week. Now, we almost never buy the stuff.

  8. I drink Diet Coke and coffee regularly. I love them both.

    I think Twinkies have gone out of style. DH bought a box and tried to share them with the kids, who physically recoiled from the thought of eating Twinkies. They talked about chemicals and shelf life, and we ended up throwing away the box.

  9. Twinkies and other Hostess products are worse than they were in the 60s. Screw the chemicals, the products are just drier and have less flavor. The “cream” filling used to be sorta-kinda like cream, and now it’s just weird sweetened paste.

  10. Interesting graphs. No offense intended, Louise, but I do not understand the rise in bottled water consumption. It is offered “free” at so many places. I think you’re supposed to think they’re posh, but all I can think is how wasteful–of their money, and with the environmental damage it does. Besides the water, the transport and making all those bottles are not trivial. I get it that there are lots of places around the country with bad water, so the individual consumer would have to resort to bottled water, but even then, why the teeny-tiny bottles? Seeing the donations in Flint was incredible–why not 5 gallon jugs, or a big tank truck where people could refill their containers?

    I don’t think the dentist asking about soda damaging teeth is the same as the hygienist bugging you about stains.

    Habits I’ve changed due to social pressure…..some parenting phrases that we are al suppose to stop saying now.

  11. Has the intake of bottled water increased, or just the purchasing? I’m thinking about all the bottles my daughter opens at birthday parties takes two sips and tosses the rest. My mom’s car always has at least four half empty water bottles rolling around in the back.

  12. My soda consumption has increased. Growing up it was once a week. I held pretty much to that for a long time, then started having it many times a week a few years ago, now am back to once or twice.

    I recently at BWW because of social pressure. DS’s school had a series of fundraisers in a tournament thing where the school that raised the most advanced, with hope of winning $2.5k for the school. Just under $1 per student. Anyway, we did it twice. The last time I ate nearly all the mushrooms and a lot of the chips. Next day my stomach felt gross.

  13. “I still LOOOOVE Coke and have been craving it lately what with all the ads for in during the NCAA tournament basketball games.”

    Right? Neither DH nor I drink soda, for the sole reason that it hurts our stomachs.* But DH was just saying the other night that despite having no desire to drink a Coke, every time that ad comes on and he hears the sound of the can or bottle opening, he wishes we had some in the house.

    *This didn’t used to be the case, and we could polish off a box of Fresca, which I used to adore, in no time flat. But once we hit about 40 or so, we couldn’t get through an entire can, and now even a sip or two is an issue. Rhett – that LaCroix stuff hurts my stomach too, so I don’t drink it. But when I did, I found it not the least bit thirst quenching. It was so weird — you’d drink a cold 8oz of it and still need something to drink.

  14. I agree with Fred – while fast food is bad, eating at other restaurants is “good”, until you look at the nutritional information and realize you consumed just as much (calories/fat/carbs/etc.) at a much higher cost. I think the biggest change for me from growing up is many more fresh fruits and vegetables and the classification of starchy vegetables in with bread/pasta/rice.

  15. I think people have grown accustomed to the sanitary, freshly opened nature of drinking bottled water, at least in group settings. You don’t see these any more:

    But that’s what I remember people bringing to the beach or a picnic when I was a kid.

    I don’t think that most Americans are making a judgment about health or trying to look posh buying bottled water; it’s simply that the Coleman thing has to be washed out — one more chore — but bottles of water sell for about 4 cents each at Costco. And then with the Coleman thing, you still need to pass out individual cups, so we’re either carting a bunch of reusable cups to the boat, bringing them home, and washing them in hot water, or we’re using disposable cups, but in either case, the environmental differences are nearly moot.

  16. At many events there are not cups and larger containers of water, but individual bottles of water. In my area, the push to use reusable bottles is pretty strong. Have you noticed that “punch bowls” seem to have gone out of fashion and individual drinks – beer, soda, juice, water – seem to have taken over?

    I typically keep 6 of the small (8oz) bottles of water in my car. The bigger ones are often left half drunk.

  17. I see a lot of people swigging Gatorade or its equivalents and vitamin water.

    I love bottled water. It was such a huge game-changer when it became a thing, because before then I had kept water in the car for DS1 in yucky plastic containers that always made the water taste bad. Switching from that to the nice clean spring water bottles was lovely. It is also wonderful for my 80-something dad, who does not have a dishwasher in his independent living apartment and isn’t really patient enough properly to wash the promotional water bottles that used to be his favorites. And when I discovered his stash of dingy, recycled Gatorade bottles that he had been rinsing out and using as water bottles for months, I pitched them and replaced them with cases of tiny and regular size bottled water, which I restock as necessary because the cases are too heavy for him to lift. I told him that, at his age, he has earned the right not to worry about his carbon footprint.

  18. I don’t think the people drinking the water are trying to look posh. Like I said, i think the places that give it out free do: schools, when you’re doing a tour, some doctor’s offices. The office for our apts hands out bottles to prospective residents, and you see the bottles on tables at meetings. In the latter case, they could easily have pitchers with glasses for people to fill. The organization renting the facility doesn’t have to do the dishes, catering does. My guess is that the bottles cost more–my professional organization is always looking for good deals at meeting places (so we wind up having to traipse across a parking lot to the other hotel multiple times in a conference day) and those meetings always have pitchers/glasses.

    We had a jug just like that in the car. It was just our family so we drank from the cup built into the lid. These days, my parents take bottled water with them on long drives

  19. Milo – My DD#2 band “gives” (part of the fee you pay of course) a jug about that size and makes them bring it to practice (marching season) and games. DD fills hers at home with half ice/half water to keep it cool. At summer practice they have these huge barrels that they refill from.

    http://waterbottlerefillstation.blogspot.com/

  20. I don’t think I’ve given up food or lifestyle due to social pressure. I’m trying to think of anything, mainly when my kids were young, but I can’t think of anything. I agree the bottled water is primarily for convenience, and now the pressure I see among hikers is to use only refillable bottles. But the bottled water is just easier to pick up on the way out the door.

    Lucky for me I don’t particularly like soda enough to drink it more than maybe once a week. Even when I get fast food (I do love fast food) I typically only drink about half of the soft drink. But when I was at a movie theater recently the video of a soft drink being poured did make it look appealing.

    I still love KFC. Last week we got the Nashville hot chicken. Delicious. So many people around me say they hate fast food; they think it’s disgusting. I mentioned KFC to one person and she made a face like she was about to throw up. (I only eat fast food about once a month, however.)

  21. I wonder how much the decrease in soda consumption is related to the increased availability of other portable alternatives?

    I hate soda — never have been able to drink it, the carbonation hurts my throat (and cola is just [shiver] no). Back In My Day(tm), I nevertheless frequently ended up having to drink a Sprite or 7-Up, because it was the only thing that was sold in single-serving-sized bottles in vending machines or provided at parties. I remember being thrilled when anyone had Yoo-Hoo, because, hallelujah, it wasn’t carbonated.

    Now with the proliferation of so many other options, you don’t have to drink soda unless you really want to — and in fact prefer it to everything else offered.

    I’m sure the larger part of the decline is due to the perceived unhealthiness, but I wonder how much of the earlier demand was just because it was the only game in town, and not because people actually preferred soda to other alternatives?

  22. So many people around me say they hate fast food; they think it’s disgusting.

    That’s so annoying. Although, while I love Wendy’s and Burger King, there is something about MacDonald’s that leaves me with this weird chemically aftertaste that is very unappealing.

  23. “I mentioned KFC to one person and she made a face like she was about to throw up.”

    You have my permission to slug her. Even my kids have better manners than that. (Well, except for the ever-present topic of What Did Mom Cook For Dinner — in public/with company they are fine)

  24. I’m sure the larger part of the decline is due to the perceived unhealthiness,

    Agreed, pretty much every diet starts with, “No more soda!”

  25. For me, the one that actually, truly, gives me heartburn is Burger King no matter what I order to eat. So I just don’t go there anymore. It’s not like I live in a fast food desert.

  26. I was once on the super clean eating/no sugar thing but I’ve become much more relaxed in my old age and everyone is happier and I think healthier. We eat Chik-fil-A once or twice per month but I usually get the soup or salad with some french fries (the sandwiches are just meh to me). I do like McDonalds every once in a while. The vilification of fast food vs. chain restaurants is silly. We buy the Mexican Coke at Costco and I drink maybe one per week (one over the course of two days). I love it but don’t want it every day. I really like Pellegrino and I drink a decent amount of chocolate milk. We have some bottled water but it’s really just for an emergency, we mostly use the stainless steel water bottles. I haven’t touched diet coke since college. I would let my oldest drink soda at this point but she hates carbonation so it’s not an issue. I saw an advertisement for organic gatorade the other day and was amused.

  27. And also with all of this bottled water over soda I haven’t seen a subsequent decline in obesity.

  28. I for one quit smoking. The final straw was the nurse practicioner who said, I see you are a smoker and prescribed a zpack, prescription cough medicine and an inhaler over the phone when I called in to report the bad adult upper respiratory infection going around in 1998, but social pressure and class disconformity were the overriding reasons.

    I don’t like soda. Rarely had it as a child or parent. Love seltzer. I used to drink beer, but that is the beverage for which age and digestion caused me to reduce consumption.

  29. Bottled water screams to me waste and environmental pollution. I avoid it as much as possible. But bottles are convenient so we keep some on hand. I have steel bottles in the car and carry a small one. I can just throw it in the dishwasher without much hassle. If we go on a road trip, i certainly bring a large bottle with tap attached. I might just go ahead and get something like that Coleman for the beach trips.

    A coke zero box from Costco lasts us a while. We only really drink it with pizza or in my Rum.

    I keep Perrier bottles around when I need something a bit more interesting that flat water. Yes, LaCroix does not quench that thirst, but then neither does very cold water.

  30. I used to be a heavy Diet Pepsi drinker (can in the morning + a fountain drink at lunch), but I cut way down when I was pregnant 9+ years ago to avoid too much caffeine. After DS was born, I cut out soda almost entirely and went to large cups of coffee in the morning instead. I occasionally drink a soda when I’m out – I particularly love getting a Dr Pepper with my Chik-Fil-A. ;) I do have a 6-pack of ginger ale in the house pretty frequently in the summer, but a lot of that gets mixed with Pimms.

    Water and coffee with cream are really my only regular non-alcoholic drinks. I drink mostly filtered tap water (home/work), but we keep bottles around for convenience too. When we get a condo rental in a place with water that is not as tasty as our own (e.g., SW Florida), I’ll get the big jugs of water & keep them in the fridge. When traveling – we usually buy packs of small ones & load them up in the hotel fridge to drink at the hotel & pop in our bags.

    I can’t think of things that I’ve cut due to peer pressure, but I can think of things that I’ve added to to increased popularity/appearance in food media/exposure, etc. Quinoa, kale & other greens that I never had growing up, unfamiliar ethnic foods (e.g., kimchi), etc. I have yet to try kombucha. And I hated coconut water when I tried it at Whole Foods from the sample table.

  31. What do people classify the energy drinks (Monster, Red Bull, 5 hour energy) as? Many of them have as much sugar/calories and caffeine as soda. I think that people have replaced soda but not solely with water. I know for myself that my daily water take is between 8-10 glasses a day but in addition I may drink tea, iced tea or a soda on a given day too.

  32. Actually kid obesity has gone down. Something is working. I do think soda is the absolute worst thing heath wise (though not that much different than sunny delight, gatorade, yoo-hoo, vitamin water). Consuming liquid that contains sugar/corn syrup is a recipe for diabetes, metabolic syndrome, etc.

    All things in moderation. I served full cans of sugary lemonade at an 8 year old party (two diabetic kids were coming and I was trying to find something that I could offer in a regular and a sugar-free version). Parents were horrified, kids were over the top delighted.

  33. Last summer we were camping with friends and I was horrified that their kids (ages 4-9) were drinking gatorade nonstop. My kids were so disappointed that water was the only option, until meal time when I gave them 1 juice box. I asked my friend if her kids drink plain water and she looked at me like I was crazy.

    Ada – at birthday parties I provide Simply Lemonade, and that seems to be happy medium among the totebaggers. At home we’ll drink the frozen can stuff.

  34. I used to drink a ton of soda back when I was waitressing but that’s mainly because that’s what was available for free. I prefer Sprite and gingerale to cola unless I need caffeine. These days I drink coffee, and on the recent diet, black coffee. And water. I have refillable water containers I bring when out and about, mostly. I’ll often indulge the kids with Gatorade or some other drink if we’re out.

    DH loves carbonated water, but after trying it plain and with many different flavors I realized I just don’t like it.

    I find that the people who have refillable water/coffee bottles are the same people that have totebags, including the small ones that fit in a purse.

    We never had a lot of gummy snacks (fruit gummies) growing up. I think Fruit Roll-ups were new, but my parents didn’t buy that stuff. Now gummy stuff seems everywhere.

  35. Meme – I am always shocked when I see someone younger than 30 smoking.

    I’ve been watching Call the Midwife – OMG everyone smokes – the doctor, the nurses, the nuns, everyone.

  36. Ada, is the artificial sweetener used in diet soda any better than corn syrup? I quite drinking diets beverages some years ago, because they supposedly aren’t healthy and may make people more thirsty. So if I drink soda, it’s usually Fat Coke.

  37. “I find that the people who have refillable water/coffee bottles are the same people that have totebags, including the small ones that fit in a purse.”

    Guilty on all counts. I like that lots of places now have those water fountains with the water bottle filling spout. I can fill my bottle up at home (including ice) & then refill. I see these at the museums, botanic garden, stadiums, etc.

    And I bring my coffee to work in a reusable mug every morning.

  38. Well, you all know what I am going to say.

    I drink beer. Coors Light to be specific. Genny Light when I’m anywhere near Western New York.

    At a wedding, party, business function, watching sports with friends, PTA after events, my book club, I do NOT want wine. I certainly don’t want hard liquor. Don’t look at me funny if I ask for a beer.

    Nobody it seems drinks beer any more. Or even have it. The last person I think I’ve ever seen drink hard liquor was my wife who loved a gin and tonic (summer only so we moved to Florida). Everybody is pushing wine on me! No, I don’t want it, and if you don’t have a Coors Light, I’ll just go get some from my car. Don’t look at me funny when I bring it in.

    Sigh. Even my sisters now drink wine. That is not the way we were raised.

  39. I drink a lot of espresso and sparkling water. I have been told that both are terrible for my teeth. Rarely drink soda (although I call it pop until someone makes fun of me for doing so). Maybe 5 per year. So far my kids won’t touch anything carbonated. They get chocolate milk on the regular, Gatorade when sick and everyone serves those half strength diluted organic juices at organized play dates and parties. Other than breakfast, they drink water with meals. My parents think I am super strict about sugar and my loca friends think I am too relaxed.

  40. “Nobody it seems drinks beer any more.”

    I don’t find that to be the case. Around here the big push is craft beer. I try some every once in a while and then I revert to Labatt Blue Light as my everyday choice. Not quite to PTM quality level (interpret as you wish), but pretty basic. If I want something else my standbys are Anchor Steam, Blue Point Toasted Lager, Heineken Light.

    Maybe my palate is not sophisticated enough to appreciate craft beer, but the ones that say they are “really hoppy” are just too dry for me. Kind of like the Lacroix phenomenon mentioned by some. And I’m just not a dark beer / stout person. Maybe when in Ireland I’ll drink Guinness at the pub.

  41. A few years ago I probably drank a quarter can of soda or some drink like Snapple in a day.
    We also had bottles of soda at home which DH used to drink now and again.
    We no longer buy soda. We do buy flavored water. Our kids drank soda on weekends but that has stopped. We give them a bit of juice and they drink plain tap water or flavored water if it is hot.
    The falling out of favor of soda is definitely due to social change here. We had soda only as a treat growing up, it wasn’t an everyday thing. There were other things that we drank like freshly squeezed fruit juices, fresh coconut water, lime water, thin buttermilk and my favorite- pure sugarcane juice (a treat).

  42. ” I like that lots of places now have those water fountains with the water bottle filling spout.”

    My office installed these and gave everyone metal water bottles. Love it!

  43. Everybody is pushing wine on me! No, I don’t want it,

    It’s gets even worse, I was at a fancy place and they had beer that was brewed to taste like wine. I think it was a saisson – nasty!

  44. “Nobody it seems drinks beer any more.”

    Around me everyone drinks beer! Mostly fancy hipster beer though rather than Light anything. I am originally from a state that has a MLB team named the Brewers though.

    Looks like Florida’s per capita beer consumption is pretty average. Maybe not at Del Boca Vista.

  45. Tee, hee, Fred. You’re right. Craft beers among the millennials.. Of course, I’m too old to know any millennials.

    Don’t be offering me a craft beer. A six pack of Genny Light would be just fine (same price, too).

  46. And I love a lot of hoppy/sour/dark craft beers, although with the explosion of breweries, there are a lot of really bad ones too. And not every style is up my alley either. Some of the ones with weird fruit and/or spices really do NOT work on any level.

  47. I usually prefer beer to wine. I like the carbonation. Usually lagers. Almost never anything fancy/craft/microbrewery. I also really like champagne/prosecco/cava, too.

  48. I’m increasingly suspicious of this research. It just doesn’t pass the logic test that soda consumption would be dropping so significantly.

    There are a thousand news articles right now about this announcement from Beverage Marketing Corporation, with many of them offering nothing more than a cut-and-paste of half of the press release. What I can’t find is any real discussion on methodology. And I was driving back from lunch and thinking about those new touchscreen drink fountains in so many fast casual restaurants, and wondering how they measure the three million different possible permutations each offers.

    I’m thinking that the American Beverage Corporation is comparing sales of canned and bottled soda with bottled water, probably as reported by retailers. But I’m suspicious that they’re not even trying to capture the amount of syrup distributed to all restaurants, gas stations, convenience stores, and cafeterias. They would then have to extrapolate how many gallons that syrup would constitute when blended onsite.

    In the past 20 years, with so many people shifting an ever-increasing portion of their dining (and drinking) away from home, it would make sense that you’d see a drop off in grocery store sales. But it’s probably being mostly replaced by Coke from the fountain at 7-Eleven and McDonald’s.

    They’re vague about this:

    http://www.beveragemarketing.com/shop/market-report-methodology.aspx

  49. I love wine and don’t drink beer very often but if I do I like Miller Light (which DH teases me about but I tell him it’s a nod to my blue collar roots). The only mixed drink I like is a gin and tonic or similar. I only really drink on the weekends now so DH has taken to having a beer every night because he doesn’t want to open a whole bottle of wine. I agree the 30+ crowd is wine, wine, wine all of the time.

    People in my area are actually pretty blase about sugar. My kids drink orange juice every morning and occasionally I’ll make homemade lemonade if the kids want to sell it. Those watery juice boxes are terrible. I grew up drinking a lot of soda and while I don’t think one should drink it every day I think it’s fine to drink it once or twice per week. My kids’ diet is overall pretty healthy so I just don’t worry about them having one or two sugary things every day.

  50. My nephew (age 26) just got married, and he and his wife crafted specialty cocktails to serve at the wedding. Apparently mixed drinks are A Thing among his crowd – they drink hard alcohol much more often than beer or wine. (And yes, specialty craft beers rather than anything as mundane as Budweiser or Coors Light.)

  51. “they drink hard alcohol much more often than beer or wine.”

    So do I. And that’s in direct contrast to my parents. My dad’s advice to teens and college students about alcohol was “at parties, stick to beer or wine, stay away from hard alcohol,” implying that the former is safer.

    Now I have an actual liquor cabinet with three types of bourbon, a couple whiskeys, muddlers, cocktail shakers, bitters. I keep fresh oranges on hand for the primary purpose of cocktails, and the secondary purpose of eating fruit. I’ve had to introduce my parents to old fashioneds and gin and tonics. And I haven’t purchased beer for the house in well over a decade.

  52. “Nobody it seems drinks beer any more.”

    PTM, you are clearly hanging with the wrong crowd — there is so. much. beer. around here it is awesome. Of course, yes, it is all “craft” beer; but since I don’t like hoppy beers or lagers, I am happy as a clam that I can go somewhere and usually find an ale that I actually like (I used to be Sam Adams, but my go-to bottled version is now Blue Moon; on tap, I’ll take a nice heffe any day of the week).

    Also agree on the trendiness of cocktails and hard liquor. We were just at a whiskey dinner last night with all sorts of rye, bourbon, etc. — boy, talk about something I can’t drink too much of! I don’t even like it and barely managed to sip my way through the equivalent of a couple of shots, and I was still seriously feeling it this morning. And there’s a craft cocktail bar downtown that is just delicious.

  53. I don’t miss Diet Coke, but now I drink a lot more unsweetened ice tea. I used to drink A LOT of Diet Coke when I was working in an office. I buy it when I feel like having one.

    I

  54. Ah, we can’t really drink beer anymore either. Sigh. There are some truly sucky things about aging. I used to love a cold Labatt Blue Light on a hot day. I’ve switched to red wine in the winter, rose or G&T in the summer, and DH is all about rye or mixed drinks. My parents and their crowd have always been all about the mixed drinks. My dad would have a beer with lunch on the dock (Labatt Blue, Fred, or a 50 back in the day) but otherwise, his were always rye + water or one of the Glens. As kids, we used to drink the remnants from all the glasses during our parents’ parties. And I think I mentioned here before about the time my parents got a new sailboat called Tequila Sunrise, so they served those on the dock for happy hour, to *all* of us. I was 8. Ah, good times. Haven’t had tequila since.

  55. LfB+1

    Beer is still popular here. Many new micro breweries, and most of the supermarkets are carrying the big name brands PLUS the local breweries. A few of the supermarkets even have beer events.
    If we go to a party in a backyard, there is always a cooler filled with regular beers and trendy stuff…plus the assorted waters and vitamin waters. There is wine too, but beer is generally offered too. We are moving our annual school fundraising “gala” to the local brew pub next year to make it more casual and fun.

  56. DD and I are going to a cider pairing dinner next week. The kind you have to purchase the ticket in advance, I love hard cider, always have, and it is what I drink now instead of beer. I never have a reason to go to Back Bay except in baseball season, so I will take the excuse to pick up my senior citizen transit card and maybe stop in at the watch store.

  57. I used to drink hard cider in college at a place in DC called the Brickskeller. It was in DuPont Circle, and they had so many great beers to try from around the world. We used to go back to visit, but it is closed.

  58. @Milo – I don’t know. You’re right – it depends how it is all collected. When I worked in CPG, we turned in volume reports for consolidation to the industry groups that would have adjusted somewhat for some of the factors you state, but it really depends. Adjusting for syrup vs ready-to-drink is not that scientific – lots of assumptions have to be made and there’s plenty of room for error. Plus, generally, you are counting on self-reported numbers as IRI/Nielsen only capture large grocery/hypermarket stores.

    DS loves those fancy soda fountains though. They have one at Nando’s & I think it is the main reason that he likes to go there. That & the garlic bread.

    @LfB – BIL sends us Union craft beers from Baltimore. I love the Double Duckpin, but it is probably not your style. Next time we are out that way, I want to go to the Tap Room. He sends us other DC-area things too, but that’s the one I request.

    We have a selection of liquor in the house too, but it took us 10 years to go through a bottle of Costco vodka – I know because I bought it just before I got pregnant, and I was JUST replaced it. And I definitely used it for pie crust and penne vodka, not just drinking.

  59. “I don’t know. You’re right – it depends how it is all collected.”

    In Rhett’s link, they definitely seem to consider the fountain source.

    Like your DS, my kids love those fancy touchscreen fountains, but I hate them. I end up in a line behind three or four people who all tend to be a little bit overwhelmed by the whole process when all I want is a cup of ice for the separate tea brewers.

  60. Rhett – The 2:00 pm graph is specifically diet. That doesn’t surprise me so much.

  61. I’m trying to force myself to like roiboos tea. I got some from Peet’s and I make it into ice tea. It’s naturally caffeine free and doesn’t need sweetener. I’m not all the way there yet.

  62. Rhett – The 2:00 pm graph is specifically diet.

    Diet is still half the sales of regular so a plunge in Diet Coke sales would push all sales down. I don’t think many Diet Coke drinkers switch to regular Coke.

  63. Diet coke is disgusting. It tastes like pool water. When my dad and I would volunteer at a concession stand for our youth sports organization, not even the bees wanted to drink the diet.

  64. Yes – the fancy machines are a pain if you just want something quick. I especially hate when it is the only source for tap water which is the case at Nando’s.

    I never drink diet soda anymore. When I do drink it, I go for the full-sugar kind. And not the hipster Mexican coke either. Fountain please with lots of ice.

  65. PTM – 5 tap rooms in a 3 mile radius of the house. All have food trucks scheduled on the weekends (Thurs through Sun). It never fails that when I found a mainstream beer I liked it would not longer be carried locally. But, hot day and cold beer is a winning combination.

    I like some wine, but not many.

  66. DS got over the thrill of those machines after <5 visits.

    Drinking: I've never done much, and now do even less. When DS was four, we'd swim once or twice a week, put a pizza in the oven, take a long bubble bath, from which he'd exit first. He couldn't reach the controls, but I had him open the oven door & enjoyed having the whole tub to myself for a few minutes. When I finally dragged myself out, we'd have tonic water & lime with our pizza. Short glass for him, highball for me–and a shot of gin.

    I like champagne/Prosecco better than most kinds of wine (recently had a red from Sicily at the Dolphin near Disney, wish I could remember what it was), but rarely feel up to finishing a bottle before it goes bad, so rarely start one. Cider? Yes please! I like dark beers, ales, and the occasional hefeweizen. These days those seem to give me more trouble the next day than a mixed drink like a Margarita, Tom Collins, or froo-froo fruity drink. DS discovered a few months ago that he likes the taste of champagne, but I don't think he's had any more. He seems to have a decent understanding of +&- of getting drunk, and has a very clear understanding that he is more likely to have negative consequences for public jack-assery than a white girl, so booze is not something I worry about with him.

  67. We rarely eat cereal, but more because I try to avoid vegetable oils/soy than sugar. My kids LOVE cereal. I always let them pick out a big box before our beach trip in April so this is a good reminder to put it on my Costco list. I like the new fountain soda machines but only because I’m able to get cherry coke.

  68. I don’t drink bottled water except when I go bike riding and forget the water bottle. I think tap water is perfectly nice, and we are lucky here in the NYC area to have tap water that tastes better than bottled water (NYC regularly wins contests for water taste, so it isn’t just my opinion). I didn’t drink soda for years but now I get a Coke sometimes when I drive home from work because it keeps me awake – not the minimal caffeine or the sugar, but just the activity of drinking it.

    I can’t think of anything I have stopped eating because of social pressure. I can be spotted at the supermarket checkout with Poptarts and Kraft Mac n’ Cheese in my cart. I also have lettuce (not in the bag, thank you), tofu, harissa, and craft beer in my cart. If I like, I eat it. I would say social pressure, or maybe just trendiness, has gotten me to try new things.

    As I get older, I get more blase and crankier about all of this. I do not want to wait in line for an hour to get a table at a trendy restaurant, I got tired of eating from food trucks by the end of my grad student era (too many tabbouli salads at 2am while really drunk), and I just want a normal entree and appetizer please – no trying to interpret snack vs, small plate vs tiny plate vs shareable vs “for 3 people” (yes, I ate at a millenial style restaurant last year that sized its entrees for 3 people). And when did everything become a “bowl”??? People have dumped stuff on top of spaghetti or rice for eons without having to call it a “bowl” – it was simply “stuff on rice”.

  69. Craft cocktails have been huge in NYC for about 10 years at least, priced at $16 and served by a guy in suspenders with odd facial hair.

    At my wedding, btw, we brewed all the beer ourselves.

  70. Coffee, water and wine here. Never liked soda as a kid. So it isn’t prohibited here but just never introduced my kids to it. Don’t get needing flavored drinks. Like my water just fine – sometimes people have a hard time with that “But don’t you want something else?” No really, water is great! I think people forget how hard it was to get water back in the day. At McDonalds they would give me a “courtesy cup” which was like a tiny dixie cup to fill at the water fountain.

    @Lauren – The Brickskeller is now the Bier Baron – same premise as Brickskeller.

  71. I try to limit my kids’ soy intake, too. One of my kids had a dairy issue and my husband didn’t want to use a soy-based formula. According to him there is some credible studies that show it can have harmful effects.

  72. Craft beers, craft liquor, and craft cocktails are all huge here. I get the sense that wine has taken the hit, at least among the trendy. Which is too bad because the wine drinkers left are not drinking the good stuff in many cases, so we see more cheap Australian wine and Proseco, and less interesting wine in the stores.

    I don;t like most hard liquor, except bourbon and the most peaty of the Scotches. I don’t like cocktails at all except strong Manhattans. But mainly, I can’t drink hard liquor – unless I am really careful, I get this choking sensation from it. Mostly, I am a beer drinker, and the hoppier the better. Love me them Cascade hops. I also like very intense red wines. We bike toured through Burgundy one summer, and I was in heaven

    When I was in college, everyone drank either White Russians or run and coke. The thought of either literally turns my stomach.

  73. Kinda of on yesterday’s topic I’m sitting in a lecture on how computers can improve one’s soft skills. Given by a professor of computer science.

  74. “I’m trying to force myself to like roiboos tea.”

    It looks lovely in a glass, but IMO the taste is vile.
    Decaf Typhoo tea tastes like the real thing, so I get it in bulk from Amazon and use it for iced tea. With a sprig of mint.
    Real iced tea is the one beverage that is almost impossible to find at some casual dining places, which try to foist off that packaged stuff on unsuspecting customers. Sometimes I just order hot tea and a cup of ice, which always seems to puzzle the server.

  75. It seems like whether it’s paleo/Weston A. Price/Ray Peat or whatever diet it is, they all agree soy and vegetable oils are bad. With the vegetable oils it’s the excess Omega 6s and with the soy it’s the phytoestrogens that disrupt hormones.

  76. I have a friend who is on one of those diets where she can’t have oil. Everything must be plant based, but no vegetable oils of any kind. She says it is because vegetables must be processed to get oil. I am so not getting this diet.

  77. “Real iced tea is the one beverage that is almost impossible to find”

    Yes! I have no idea why–it’s so easy to make, and water that’s piped in must be less expensive than the bottles.

  78. I drink Diet Coke or Diet Pepsi with aspartame pretty much daily as well as carbonated water. I like bubbles and doubt anyone cares what I eat or drink.

    We go to fast food restaurants when we travel but I haven’t found anything I like at McDonald’s, which is what the rest of the family prefers and is sometimes/often the only option. The boys are no longer satisfied with a happy meal so we’re adding a 20 pack of nuggets to share. I envision a day when even more nuggets will be needed to avoid hunger. They already want two burritos or two corn dogs for lunch often and will eat a sandwich or large bagel with peanut butter for a snack.

    It will surprise no one that peer pressure doesn’t stop me from eating things. Like others, I have expanded my food list (kale, quinoa, greens) as I become aware of new options.

  79. “Real iced tea is the one beverage that is almost impossible to find at some casual dining places”

    I don’t find that to be true around here, and I drink a lot of iced tea. I never see the gross Nestea in the soda fountain any more, and it’s very rare to see the fake Gold Peak dispenser that was designed to look like an actual brewing pot when in actuality it’s just another syrup mixer and dispenser.

    Generally, you see actual brewing pots everywhere. One sweetened, one not.

  80. “Sometimes I just order hot tea and a cup of ice, which always seems to puzzle the server.”

    That’s a good idea, although I do see more restaurants offering real iced tea instead of Snapple or something similar. When I first moved here from the south it took me a few times before I realized that if I ordered tea I would get a cup of hot tea.

    “it took us 10 years to go through a bottle of Costco vodka”

    We went through most of a bottle of Irish whiskey on St. Patty’s Day, and we’re not even Irish. And we had plenty of beer, too. :)

    We live near several craft beer breweries, including one that’s about half a mile from our home. I’ve heard Prosecco is having a moment of popularity.

  81. Gold Peak. That’s the one I was thinking of. Several places here in town haven’t gotten the memo, and when we are looking for somewhere to have lunch, the quality of the iced tea options is often a deal-breaker in the summer. Panera has switched out their stainless steel canisters for clear plastic ones, which are much better because you can see whether the tea is too cloudy or too dark and avoid it.

    I don’t often get iced tea at Starbucks anymore — are they still watering down the tea and then solemnly shaking it before serving?

  82. White Russians or run and coke.

    I like both of those. Can’t tell you when I last had either one, but I did recently get one of those tiny bottles of Kaluha and put it in a glass of milk with a little bit of DS’s chocolate soft-serve.

  83. When I was little and living in places like Texas, we would get always served iced tea when we played at friends houses. Everyone had huge pitchers of it in their fridges. Yiich, supersweet with that nasty tea taste. I still detest the stuff.

  84. Thanks, Scarlett, I’ll give that a try. Sometimes the decaf teas and coffees aren’t really entirely decaf, and if I’m drinking them after dinner, I’ll pay the price.

  85. I love the new soda machines because i can mix flavors to my liking! Yum I cannot stand the taste of any beer other than bud light. I think my parents let me take a sip when i was a kid and it still has left horrible taste in my mouth. I like mixed drinks but try to avoid them due to sugar content. I have been loving some jalapeno spiked margaritas lately.

  86. My complaint about Proseco is that I can’t find reasonable Champagne in the liquor store any more. Proseco has driven it out. At Christmas, it is nice to have a decent dry Champagne.

    When I lived in France as a teen, I discovered hard cider, since I was in Normandy, land of cider. But the cider there was really good – more like Champagne, very dry and bubbly. I have not had hard cider since that is as good. In the US, it always seems too sweet even when it is labelled dry.

  87. My kids love those fancy soda machines and create the most appalling concoctions. But we don’t go to places with the machines very often.

  88. Gold Peak is the spawn of Satan. I will not eat at places that offer only that. Because it is so. damn. easy. to make real tea, and it’s cheap too. So if you can’t even be bothered to make something real that is cheap and easy, then why would I trust you to make harder/more expensive food?

    Not sure I have ever been more aligned with Scarlett in anything. 😉

  89. We have been buying the Kirkland champagne lately – it’s very good for the price.

  90. PS – Scarlett – the secret to Starbucks is to order the tea without the water. E.g., “Trenta black iced tea, no sugar, no water, please.” Then they just fill ‘er up with the tea. Is delicious.

  91. For everyday drinking, I run on morning tea, daylong tap water / office jug water, and evening wine / beer / cocktails (not all at the same time). Reading through everyone’s likes and dislikes, I realize that I apparently like all the booze. (Except domestic lager.) The only downside I see to the current hop fad is that eventually the pendulum will swing the other way, but there are times for dark and malty beers too. And yes, summer wheats are good, and I also like lambic and saison and those other funky Belgian ones. We also have much wine in the house. Also more variety of liquor than most bars, although our basics are all “call” rather than “well” brands.

    We have some cans of coke and ginger ale around mainly for occasional mixer duty, plus the pompelmo and a couple others from San Pellegrino. The kids are allowed to hit those up, but don’t usually think to. They drink a lot of water, and my youngest still drinks a fair bit of milk.

    We also stock a rotating selection of Ito En canned drinks (unsweetened green tea, cappucino, milk tea, oolong tea) and local brand canned juice / tea drinks (sweetened ginseng green tea, lilikoi, POG or other fruit) for kid lunches and incidental drinking.

    @Ivy Some of the ones with weird fruit and/or spices really do NOT work on any level.

    Although sometimes they do work surprisingly well, like that Belching Beaver peanut butter milk stout.

  92. MM, sweet tea is an abomination! The only way I’ve ever been able to drink it is hot, with lots of spices and maybe some milk, while chewing qat, which is very bitter, with my Somali friends. But that’s nothing like the iced syrupy stuff.

    Do you like cave? I momentarily couldn’t remember the word earlier, but I like it better than prosecco because it is generally less sweet.

  93. “no trying to interpret snack vs, small plate vs tiny plate vs shareable vs “for 3 people” ”

    I get annoyed with this too some places. If you have to explain the menu too hard, it isn’t working. I don’t mind small plates or small apps + shared entrees if I know what am I getting into and how much to order. Actual Spanish tapas is great. Places with family style sides are fine. I don’t mind ordering and sharing everything. What I hate is having to guess who much food to order, especially when the sizes vary widely within one restaurant. The most annoyed I have been with any dining experience recently was at a restaurant where the server who happened to also be rude and unattentive told us that everything on the menu was “small plates” and meant to be shared. I specifically asked how large the items were & how much a typical couple should order, and he said 3 things per person. tEe ordered 5 things and ended up with essentially 5 entrees for 2 people. There weren’t even sharing plates – it was all plated in giant bowls and set down in front of us without any plates to take from the serving bowls to a side plate. I was IRATE. This place got a Michelin star last year. I can’t believe it. The food wasn’t even very good. They changed the menu a bit, but I refuse to go back.

    And I’ve seen the “for 3 people” too.

  94. two diabetic kids were coming and I was trying to find something that I could offer in a regular and a sugar-free version

    Why couldn’t you offer just a sugar-free drink?

  95. LfB, please elaborate on the no-water tea. DW ordered an ice tea at SB once and they asked if she wanted water and she has no idea why anyone would drink tea without it because it’s an essential ingredient.

  96. Given that I am currently sitting at Kaiser watching DS get his boot replaced with a permanent cast (because it turns out he fractured four metatarsals instead of just the 2-3 they originally thought), there will be quite significant milk consumption in our house as well. And Vitamin D3. And green veggies. Whether he likes it or not. Dammit.

  97. @Milo/DD — Extra water. Starbucks brews its iced tea strong and keeps it in a pitcher. When they make your drink, they put tea up to a certain line, then water up to a certain line, then add ice and shake. If you tell them “no water,” they just add tea up to the top line, add water, and shake.

  98. Here’s a question for you: how did we survive the school day BITD with only a small carton of milk at lunch and a couple of slugs from the drinking fountain to sustain us? I see kids carrying bottles of water around like they are going on a desert hike.

  99. “there will be quite significant milk consumption in our house as well. And Vitamin D3. And green veggies. Whether he likes it or not. ”

    Sun time too?

  100. @Ivy, I hate shared plates! Why on earth would I want to share. The whole concept is so complex and then there’s something I love, but i only get one of them. No I want my app, my entree. Yes, I was a difficult child. Sharing is the worst concept ever. Who ever wants less of something? NO ONE I say!

  101. “how did we survive the school day BITD with only a small carton of milk at lunch and a couple of slugs from the drinking fountain to sustain us?”

    My recollection is that the water fountains were quite busy, and we’d also rehydrate from whatever was available, e.g., the sinks in the restrooms, creating makeshift fountains by pointing the end of a hose straight up, or just drinking straight from faucets. HM may recall the admonition, “no suck pipe.”

  102. “We had a jug just like that in the car. It was just our family so we drank from the cup built into the lid.”

    Yeah, those jugs were common when I was a kid. I don’t remember the cup built into the lid; I remember just turning the lid upside down.

    Alternatively, water would be dispensed directly into mouths.

  103. “I find that the people who have refillable water/coffee bottles are the same people that have totebags, including the small ones that fit in a purse.”

    Do you mean folding bags that can be used for groceries?

    Otherwise, I’m wondering how useful a totebag is that is so small as to fit into a purse, unless said purse is quite large.

  104. Moxie – The upside on shared plates is that you get to eat so many different things. But yeah – it can be a real drag too. It is awful if not executed correctly. I like shared plates in groups of 4 and under only, and really I like it best when it is just the 2 or 3 of us. When you have more people it gets really awkward too.

  105. BITD, we also managed to sit through college classes, and even double lab periods, with no water or caffeinated products. DH tells me that no one comes to class anymore without giant beverage containers to sustain them. I see the kids in campus every day and nearly every one has a water bottle tucked into the pocket on the side of the backpack.
    Did they even have such pockets on our backpacks?

    When we were in Paris last year, public restrooms were scarce. Maybe that’s why Parisians don’t carry water bottles.

  106. Some people that I’ve read think we’re all drinking too much water and we’re the only species that insists on drinking beyond thirst. I definitely think the half your weight in ounces of water thing in addition to all of the other stuff people are drinking may be a bit much.

  107. Atlanta, I’ve never heard that calculation before, but that’s about what I’ve been drinking since I started losing weight. A cup of coffe/milk (50:50), milk on my cereal, maybe some of DS’s juice (shared cups!) or an evening cocktail, or a glass of milk, and lots and lots of water.

  108. “I like shared plates in groups of 4 and under only, and really I like it best when it is just the 2 or 3 of us. When you have more people it gets really awkward too.”

    It’s pretty normal for 8 to 10 people to share food at Chinese restaurants.

  109. OT, I’ve made a lot of changes to my diet over the last 10 to 15 or so years, driven almost entirely by health concerns, for my own health as well as trying to model healthful eating for my kids.

    I love soda, especially Mountain Dew, but almost never drink it these days because I’m trying to avoid becoming pre-diabetic. Like HM’s family, I now drink a lot of cold green and oolong tea, but I make my own from tea bags, partly because I’m too cheap to buy canned tea that I can easily make myself, and partly for environmental reasons.

    If I need a shot of caffeine, I’ll typically turn to coffee these days, preferably iced, and with milk added if available; no sugar for obvious reasons. When eating out, this often means ordering a cup of black coffee and a cup of ice.

    I wouldn’t call it social pressure, but one reason that’s not strictly health-related that’s caused changes in my diet is simply the availability and popularity of foods that weren’t so available and popular not very long ago, e.g., quinoa, acai.

  110. @Finn: yes, sun. When there is sun to be had. And unfortunately, said cast is now interfering with the activities that would naturally be getting him out into the sun (e.g., baseball). So, vitamin D supplements.

  111. I have started to drink a lot of water. I start my day with a cup of water for my office plant and one cup for me. As the day goes on I refill my cup. I don’t carry a water bottle. I have small bottles in my car in case I need them.
    I have replaced a quarter can of soda in the afternoon with tea. It helps immensely that there are brew machines at work placed before you get to the vending machine.

  112. “two diabetic kids were coming and I was trying to find something that I could offer in a regular and a sugar-free version”

    Water?

  113. “we’re the only species that insists on drinking beyond thirst.”

    Do camels get really really thirsty when near a source of water?

  114. When they make your drink, they put tea up to a certain line, then water up to a certain line, then add ice and shake. If you tell them “no water,” they just add tea up to the top line, add [ice], and shake.
    </blockquote]

    Goodness, all these rules to keep track of. This is why the rich keep getting richer.

  115. No matter how much water they put in your iced tea, you will have more if you wait a while. I prefer to start with mine a little too strong, then sip slowly.

  116. “It’s pretty normal for 8 to 10 people to share food at Chinese restaurants.”

    Ah, but there is a real protocol to it, and the dishes are normal sized, not “small plate” so everyone can get a reasonable amount of each item.

  117. I do not understand why everyone has to cart huge bottles of beverage with them at all times, and I can only imagine how often these people must be peeing.

  118. My mom is obsessed with having water on hand at all times. She only started doing this in the last 10-12 years. When I am visiting her (or vice versa) she won’t get in the car without a bottle of water. She is always going to the bathroom as a result!

  119. Refillable bottles are favored by the local totebag set. And de rigeur among hikers cyclists and ecotravelers. I stock a tray of water bottles for emergencies, Some how they disappear by the end of six months and I get another.

    Old people feel the need to pee frequently no matter what their water consumption habits. I’ll leave it at that.

  120. I know self-denial is something of a Totebag virtue, but now we’re tut-tutting about people drinking too much water and carrying refillable water bottles around to support the habit?

  121. Some people that I’ve read think we’re all drinking too much water and we’re the only species that insists on drinking beyond thirst. I definitely think the half your weight in ounces of water thing in addition to all of the other stuff people are drinking may be a bit much.

    That sounds a little high, but I think Back In The Day, we were all a bit dehydrated.

  122. Cementing my status as totebag-wannabe, I have to confess I drink soda. I have a Diet Dr Pepper almost every day. The throat burn of an ice cold soda is awesome. I have started drinking coffee as a more healthy (this year) alternative to my DDP, but it’s turned out to be in addition to it. I also brew a large glass container of strong tea every morning and drink it over ice during the day, but none are as satisfying as that cold soda.

  123. Meme, I only recently learned not to refer to every bottle designed to be refilled with water as a “bike bottle”, just the squishy plastic ones.

    In other news, Costco is testing our Shipt in a Tampa. Silly me for buying the membership, because you don’t need one to get groceries delivered.

  124. It seems as if refillable water bottles breed and multiply in my pantry. I have to purger periodically or they’ll take over. My son just returned from a conference with a bunch of tchotchkes, including a bunch of actually very nice water bottles. One had a basket inside to infuse fruit.

    One change I’ve decided to make is no more whole wheat bread unless it’s for something special. My long-time complaint has been that every whole wheat bread I buy is too sweet. Why they add sweetener I don’t know, but maybe it’s just naturally sweeter than white bread.

  125. We buy the Kirkland seltzer a lot. I got into it at the last house and now I drink mostly that and milk at the house since our water is hard and tastes funny. :( Maybe I should get a Brita so I will drink more regular water again.

    The kids drink milk and water, occasionally juice. They have never had soda, so that is one place where my Totebag credentials are intact. :D DH and I drink Coke Zero, not diet coke, and then we use ginger beer for our Dark & Stormys – no other soda in the house. I don’t think I’ve had a regular Coke since high school.

    DH drinks the Starbucks instant coffee. I switched to decaf in the fall when I got too anxious, but I have a fancyish grinder and make pour-over coffee every morning with one of these. https://www.amazon.com/Bee-House-Ceramic-Coffee-Dripper/dp/B0047VUNVE

  126. Denver – that water recommendation (half your weight in ounces) is what my dr. has told me. And then she told me in addition to that, if I drink coffee/tea I need to drink an additional glass of water to make up for the dehydrating affects of a caffeinated beverage. It’s too much for me personally. I drink more when I’m outside or exercising and less in the winter when I’m not doing as much.

    For all you gin and tonic fans you need to try the Fever Tree tonic if you haven’t already – it is excellent.

  127. Could somebody explain the no-vegetable-oil diet to me? Like I said, I have a friend who is on this diet, who is constantly proselytizing it. She pops up on Facebook, making comments on all the dietary guidelines posts, haranging everyone for not banning vegetable oils. She also posts photos of her food everyday. Evidently, everything has to be plant based but no oil of any kind. The oil ban does not seem to be based on calories, so what is it? She just says they are processed food. To me, cold pressed olive oil seems not so processed. What am I missing?

  128. CoC said “It seems as if refillable water bottles breed and multiply in my pantry. ”

    Same here! It is an occupational hazard for conference goers. I came back from Seattle with 5 Google bottles, all in different colors (nice ones too, not the icky plastic). They flop all over the pantry until I purge them. They mainly get used by a certain little girl who likes to put soda in them when we watch movies on Friday night – she thinks soda is more fancy in a conference water bottle.

  129. MBT, I hear you on the throat burn. Ahh. I have consumed an ocean of diet soda in my life. Used to be Diet Pepsi, but in the last several years it’s been Coke Zero. I haven’t had a sugared soda since I was a small child. In the last 10 years I’ve cut back to one or two a day. I switched to Diet Rite. I think the diet soda was contributing to my restless leg syndrome (it wasn’t the caffeine — coffee doesn’t have the same effect.) I’m going to die from the effects of Diet Pepsi eventually. You’re really not supposed to consume that much over a lifetime.

  130. Totally off topic: I was just paging through the magazine we get from the community college here. I haven’t really paid much attention to it over the years because it didn’t occur to me that there’d be a lot of kid-friendly programming there, but is there ever. This is a summer catalogue and there are robotics camps, engineering camps, STEAM camps, career exploration, all kinds of computer programming, video game design, etc.

    I thought of this group and our annual discussion about summer activities for kids. Maybe you all are way ahead of me on this and have been looking at your community colleges for ideas all this time.

    There’s also a day-long camp about getting a jump start on college essays, which of course made me think of this group.

    And on the second last page — a day long camp called “Summer Camp for Nursing Students: how to survive and thrive in nursing school” !!! I never would’ve guessed such a thing exists. I’m signing DD up for that today (along with the class in bee-friendly gardening she wants to take, as she’s been concerned about bees for some time — ??? Maybe she’ll end up working in the BICU. Haha).

    Anyway, a note to maybe check out your local CCs for summer and weekend/evening school year programs for your kids.

  131. I love seltzer. I usually buy the supermarket brand and drink it in the evening. I have considered getting a home seltzer maker but have heard they don’t make it as bubbly as the store bought kind.
    A big shock – when I went out to the West Coast, I could not find seltzer anywhere! I checked supermarkets in Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver on 3 separate trips. What do you guys drink if you don’t have seltzer??? :-)

  132. Risley, my kids used to go to camp programs at a nearby small private college, but now go to summer programs housed at the local SUNY. There are so many programs that I can find everything from horse back riding to computer programming to architecture. It keeps me sane in the summer because all 3 kids can find something at the SUNY, meaning DH can drop them all in the morning and then I only have one pickup in the afternoon.

    Summer kid programs are HUGE money makers for universities. That is why they all do them. My university does them too.

  133. Mooshi – my kids have done a million things at the U here, but I never considered a community college would have so many programs for kids. Total shocker. Huge oversight on my part.

    And then some of the ones for adults kill me: “Homesteading 101,” “How to skin, tan and hide an animal,” etc.

  134. “I have considered getting a home seltzer maker but have heard they don’t make it as bubbly as the store bought kind.”

    We like our SodaStream, and it will make it as bubbly as you like, depending on how many times you push down the lever.

    I don’t necessarily care for the SodaStream syrups, however. Instead, we use a tiny bit of these (DW uses an even smaller amount than I use):

  135. Soda stream works fine. I keep one of their bottles of tap water in the fridge (works best on cold cold water) pull it out and add the carbonation right before serving. Takes 30 sec. You quickly learn how to get it exactly as you want it. I drink it straight or sometimes add tart cherry concentrate.

  136. MM – I’ve never heard of banning olive oil on a diet. I try to avoid the polyunsaturated oils (canola, sunflower, soybean oil, etc.) but I use olive oil for salad dressings and cook with ghee, coconut oil and butter. I’m not militant about it but I try to not use those oils at home.

  137. I was so cold this morning that I bought a cup of coffee so my hands would warm up. So sick of January in March. I just want a day without gloves and boots.

    I love iced coffee. I still drink it in the winter, but I was just too cold today to deal with paying for ice.

  138. MM – I personally don’t think that diet is a new revelation. Vegetarians in the home country eat pretty much that diet. They have diary products like yogurt and buttermilk and milk based sweets. But other than that, it is vegetables of all types, beans, legumes and starches like rice.

  139. I don’t think Sodastream water is as bubbly as from the store and it doesn’t last like store water (I suspect there is manufacturing variation in the plastic seal to the plastic bottle that allows the gas to start leaking out at varying pressures or different designs by model, which is part of our varying opinions.)

    What I think is called seltzer in the Northeast is more commonly sold as sparkling water here. Fred Meyer/Kroger and Safeway both sell generic 12 packs and 2 L bottles. If you want real seltzer, that’s usually sold in the mixed drinks section.

  140. Louise, no, this is different. Whole plant based means no dairy, no oil of any kind

  141. I could not find seltzer anywhere! I checked supermarkets in Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver on 3 separate trips. What do you guys drink if you don’t have seltzer??? :-

    What did we (in the US) drink in the 70? ;)

  142. Louise, I thought you were from a country where Ghee is common.

    Atlanta, that was my thought too.

  143. MM – I don’t understand it either. I also don’t understand the dairy hate. I think people get too wrapped up in some mythical perfect diet and ignore things like exercise, sleep, being outside, not looking at screens all day long, etc. And there is that little snippet about how you can get all of your vitamins and nutrients from vegetables except for B12 (which is important). I have read a lot of stories about vegans burning out after a few years and being really depleted of vitamins and minerals and then they go the opposite direction and take up paleo which can also break you down if you go too low carb. That diet sounds too low fat to me.

  144. Mooshi, I read part of your first link on that diet. I just skimmed after “we don’t eat them because I think they’re unhealthy” but this did catch my eye:

    “Nut butters: I use nut butters in my cookies as a fat replacer.”

    Hahahahahaha

  145. CoC, do the water bottles breeding in your cupboard each have their own matching lid? Mine are more polyamorous than Tupperware.

  146. Arg. There was a back & forth arrow between vegan and paleo, but that character doesn’t show up here. I wish there was an edit function.

  147. “A whole-food, plant-based diet is centered on whole, unrefined, or minimally refined plants.”

    I fail to see how extra virgin olive oil does not meet this criterion. Apply weight; pour off oil. Duh.

    “you’ll be eating in a way that people have thrived on for thousands of years.” Yes. With olive oil.

    I also fail to see how grinding olives to make olive oil is “bad,” but grinding nuts to make nut butters is “good.”

    Sounds like someone wants a cookbook deal and a lifestyle blog to me.

  148. “Ah, but there is a real protocol to it, and the dishes are normal sized, not “small plate” so everyone can get a reasonable amount of each item.”

    Yes exactly. And there’s the big turntable, which is ingenious.

    Any link that is called “what to eat” gets an eye roll from me. Whole 30 has that laundry list of what is and is not “compliant” that turned me off immediately – anything that uses “compliant” as a descriptor for food gets another big eye roll from me. Plus, a diet that says legumes are evil is going too far for me – taking a good idea (cutting out added sugar and concentrating on whole foods) into insane territory. I know that there are people here who have had great success with Whole 30, and I am glad for that. But I do really hate the term “compliant” applied to food. Also hate – “clean” eating/food. Foods aren’t “bad” and “good” or “clean” vs “dirty”.

    “I think people get too wrapped up in some mythical perfect diet and ignore things like exercise, sleep, being outside, not looking at screens all day long, etc.”

    Exactly. And I know I’m guilty of all of that too. And just eating fruit & vegetables and not eating mounds of sugar. Not that I am personally always good at those things because I most definitely am not. But it’s a good place to focus.

    I will also say – so what if people drink more water now? How is that bad? I like drinking water throughout the day, I don’t like being thirsty, and it makes me physically feel better when I do. In the dark ages of the 90’s, we carried Naglene bottles around campus & filled them up at the water bottle filling station and brought them to class/the library. BITD, there was one nice filling station in the student union – now they are all over campus in every building, and I’m sure in the dorms as well. We all had brita pitchers in our dorm fridges too.

  149. I have a friend whose sister is on the plant based diet, and has been for several years. It is a full time obsession, very time consuming, and alienating. Her sister (and her kids) no longer attend birthday parties or family events (including holidays) where food will be served. And any time food is mentioned, there is a lesson about how everyone, but her, will die of cancer because of the toxic food they are consuming. It is interesting…

  150. All this talk about water reminded me to pour myself another glass. If I’m home I drink a lot, always microwaving it for about 20 seconds because I can’t gulp down cold water. If I’m out and about I don’t drink so much. See Meme’s comment above. :)

  151. The need for water is affected by relative humidity, I think. I don’t drink much water here, where the relative humidity outdoors is ~100% for months on end. I drink a lot more when I visit the dry part of Oregon or Washington. Since I was pregnant/nursing for 2 1/2 years, I’m glad to be drinking less when I have to wear a fab suit, because going to the bathroom frequently is a hassle.

    We have one of those metal Coleman jugs for water when we go camping. It keeps water cold better than anything else we’ve found. I wish they still sold them, because ours is pretty beat up.

  152. SM – yes ghee is common but people don’t do everyday cooking in ghee. They use some type of vegetable oil. Mustard oil, sunflower oil, coconut oil or mixed vegetable oil. Ghee is used to cook certain items only or to garnish (adds a nice fatty taste/aroma).

  153. WCE, don’t those suits make you sweat? How do you avoid getting a headache or passing out?

    Thanks Louise. Sounds like I had the right country after all. And that diet makes a million times more sense than what MM linked to.

    Mooshi, does anyone make specific claims about how/why they think this is healthy?Of you can get them to explain, please pass it on.

  154. One of my Santa Cruz friends is doing Forks over Knives. She’s not fascist about it, though. But she’s definitely evangelical. She swears her back pain has cleared up, which seems highly unlikely to be related to her diet, but whatevs. She’s got another friend inching up on it too. It gets tiresome listening to them complain about people who “make their diet out of a pile of carcasses” (why yes! My diabetic husband does eat low-carb), but then again, that’s the California I know and love/hate.

  155. I remember dinner parties and family celebrations BITD where the only dietary issue to be considered was whether it was a Friday in Lent. Agree that the zealous converts* to various diet fads can be difficult to include in normal life.
    * not including the family members with celiac disease or food allergies.

  156. Why do they think anyone cares? In a discussion of vegetarianism, I’ll say that I’m vegetarian, and If you ask me if you should cook x animal carcasses for me, I’ll tell you you I don’t eat it, but otherwise not. This winter we visited some friends we haven’t seen in a while. The wife suggested the first vegetarian cookbooks I ever got. They served us chili, with a side I’m allergic to. DS stepped up and ate half my bowl. :) I ate the rest, tried to focus on conversation and not what was happening in my stomach.

  157. S&M, the temperature in the fab is kept below standard room temperature and our suits are not Gore-Tex (Gore-Tex is used for cleanest fabs) so I don’t sweat and I’m usually in there for 2-3 hr at most. We can get water from a cooler without degowning so I drink a little, especially if I have a cold. Working 12 hr shifts (with 3 breaks) is hard for people but we’re back to 8 hr shifts for production, which is easier on people. We also have chairs and are allowed to sit in them as appropriate. (Some fabs don’t have chairs for space/perceived work ethic concerns.) I especially appreciated the chairs when I was pregnant and standing constantly was tiring.

  158. Mooshi – Is seltzer just carbonated water? I think Pellegrino, Perrier and Crystal springs all make fizzy waters, sometimes with lemon or lime flavoring added

  159. Risley, my son is planning to take a class at the community college this summer, but it’s just a regular class, not a special camp. If they have any of those, I’m not aware! Still, it’s nice that the high school students can take classes there.

  160. WCE, is there laminar flow in your fab? The air movement can create a wind chill effect that also helps keep people comfortable while suited up.

  161. HM, is your son’s class dual enrollment?

    BITD, it was called the Early Admit program.

  162. Finn, it’s Running Start now, regular community college class, but taken for dual credit.

  163. A vegan, a cross fitter and an Atheist walk into a bar. I only know because they told everyone within two minutes.

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