Election 2016, October 23-29

The end (of the campaign) is near.  Voting takes place in 15 days.

Ricky Gervais:

“If [Trump] gets in, good luck to him. That’s what the people wanted….”

Ann Althouse:

Yes, this is a democracy, and if Trump becomes President, there’s no blaming Trump. It’s something the people made happen. The same goes for Hillary and for our awful predicament having Hillary and Trump as the candidates. That’s us….

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62 thoughts on “Election 2016, October 23-29

  1. This year, Massachusetts is offering early voting for the first time. It opens tomorrow. As soon as I put DD on the school bus tomorrow morning, I am planning to head straight for the local City Hall to vote when they open at 8:00. After that, I am going to tune out everything having to do with politics until the night of November 8, when the results start coming in. I’m just so ready to be done with this election cycle.

  2. I have my mail-in ballot, I just have to fill it out. There are some local issues I need to research a little.

  3. NoB, early voting opens here tomorrow as well. I plan on voting as soon as I can and tuning everything out as well. It is just getting so ugly. I’m staying off FB until it is over as well.

  4. So Coloradoans, what is going on in Colorado with the referendum to create a single payer health system? Any chance of passage? I think Vermont tried this but it failed

  5. Mooshi, I don’t know what the polls are showing but I voted against it. First, I think it will be ridiculously expensive. And second, even if I was in favor of it, I would vote against it because it’s a constitutional amendment. It does not belong in the constitution, it should be a statute.

  6. Rocky, I voted against all of the amendments. I am in favor of some of them but they should be statutes, not amendments. I voted against the amendment to change the amendment process (which has to be an amendment for obvious reasons) because I think it would make it too difficult. We have a complete mess we need to fix (TABOR and other spending amendments) and we’ll never be able to get any of it done if that amendment passes.

  7. Denver, you and my DH are in agreement about the amendment issue. For non-Coloradans, we don’t change state law by voting on statutes, we vote on constitutional amendments, and as a result our state constitution is ridiculously huge. Like, massively huge. It’s a very stupid system. DH typically votes against amendments for the same reason Denver Dad does, but I will vote for them if I believe in the principle of the amendment.

  8. Just checked early voting in my town and it is open most of the day (8-4) during my WAH days. Woot! Will go tomorrow or the next day with DH to get that over with. :)

  9. For non-Coloradans, we don’t change state law by voting on statutes, we vote on constitutional amendments, and as a result our state constitution is ridiculously huge.

    To be clear we can vote on statutes, but because the requirements for getting an amendment on the ballot are exactly the same as for statutes, they make all the proposals amendments so the legislature can’t change them. I think we need to make it harder to get amendments on the ballot, but the proposed amendment that will do that goes much too far.

    And I will vote for an amendment if I am in 100% agreement with it, but I am not with any of this year’s proposals. I agree with raising the tobacco tax, but how that revenue will be spent should not be locked into the constitution. The legislature should have the ability to change that if and when it becomes necessary.

  10. “I’ll be so excited when this election is over.”

    Can’t say that I will, given that we’ll likely have elected either Hillary or Trump.

  11. Can’t say that I will, given that we’ll likely have elected either Hillary or Trump.

    I agree. Right now, I can still hope for a miracle, but in two weeks either Hillary or Trump will bbe president elect. YUCK

  12. I was the 8th person in line at my local City Hall when it opened at 8:00 this morning for the first-ever day of early voting in Massachusetts. A steady stream of people filed in after me. Our City Clerk and his staff obviously put a lot of effort into getting things organized, and the voting went smoothly. The staff seemed to be excited that they were participating in a somewhat historic event in our state. The voters all seemed to be uniformly thrilled that we are DONE for the political season.

  13. “I can still hope for a miracle”

    E.g., things are disclosed that are enough to force both of them out of the race. But in this day and age, something like having been hospitalized and treated for depression wouldn’t be enough.

  14. I’m not certain which presidential candidate will be worse for our country, but I do believe this.

    In an election season that has been full of surprises, let’s hope the electorate understands that there is at least one thing of which it can be certain: A Hillary Clinton presidency will be built, from the ground up, on self-dealing, crony favors, and an utter disregard for the law.

    Top comment from that story:

    How fascinating! A tape surfaces of Trump talking like a union construction worker and the Senate and House Republican candidates fall all over themselves to announce they won’t vote for him. A letter showing the corruption of Hillary (and Bill) surfaces and not a single Democrat is surprised, much less even criticizes their behavior.

    A compounding problem is that the mainstream media would fail to provide adequate check over the corruption of her presidency

    .AP-GfK poll: Most voters believe media biased against Trump

  15. “The Washington Post article is absolutely fascinating on ‘Bill Clinton Inc.,'” Scarborough said at the top of Thursday’s broadcast. “$66 million to him personally and they’re bragging! They’re bragging at the memo that they can shake down the same corporations that they’re taking donation money for, that they can shake them down for $66 million for ‘Bill Clinton Inc.'”

    “For Bill and Hillary Clinton personally, does that confirm what you and a lot of Clinton skeptics that supported Bernie Sanders were worried about all along?” Scarborough asked guest Eddie Glaude Jr., chairman of African American studies at Princeton.

    “Well, it’s certainly, um, yes,” Glaude Jr. answered to laughter. “It certainly confirms a deep suspicion that there’s an ethical deficit that defines how they operate in the political domain, how they operate generally. They have an ethical and moral deficit.”

    In a conversation with a Clinton “supporter”, it was pointed out to me that the Clintons are probably no worse than your typical politician when it comes to ethics. I’m not sure.

  16. CoC, I do think they’re worse, and I’m voting for her. In general, my social views are too liberal for the current Republican platform, but I likely would have voted Republican because I am bothered by the self-dealing and the complete disregard of the appearance of conflicts of interest. But I consider Trump to be far worse for the country, and just an incredibly vile human being. And I am concerned that the 24 hour news cycle and the tabloid tone of this election will continue to prevent good people from running.

  17. And I am concerned that the 24 hour news cycle and the tabloid tone of this election will continue to prevent good people from running.

    Me too.

  18. I will add that I think the potential for Trump self-dealing is even higher than the Clintons. He doesn’t even pretend that his family will not be still engaged in their businesses.

  19. You guys all did read the reporting on the many ethical lapses in the Trump Foundation, right? At least the Clinton Foundation did real charitable work.

  20. So anyway, back to the Bundys. After reading about the defense attorney getting tasered in the courtroom, and Ammon Bundy’s 10 hour testimony, DH’s analysis was that the judge had lost complete control of the courtroom. Do you other lawyers see it that way?

  21. RMS, I’ve been too busy watching the Steven Avery courtroom dramas even to know to what you are referring. And then reading online this morning, when I was supposed to be doing productive things, to find out what’s happened in the various cases since January and what everyone thinks about Making of a Murderer. I sequestered myself while watching the series, and now I’m obsessed.

    I hope Finn notices that I neither split an infinitive nor left a dangling participle in the first sentence.

  22. RMS,

    I was surprised at the Bundy verdict. I think that verdict is based on the jury’s own feelings of disenfranchisement and a sense that the feds should NOT have killed Levoy whatshisname. It is too bad that the Bundy actions completely overshadowed the Hammonds, whose double jeopardy trial started the whole thing.

  23. It is going to be fun if HRC has to step down and the GOP is left to deal with Boy Scout Kaine.

  24. I think it is ironic that this came out as a result of the Weiner investigation.

    I was going to stay home and skip voting, but after the King of Morocco story came out last week I decided to go lodge my protest vote for Trump (HRC will win this state even if she’s been carted off in handcuffs before Election Day). Better a buffoon than another Evita.

  25. “After reading about the defense attorney getting tasered in the courtroom, and Ammon Bundy’s 10 hour testimony”

    My take on it was that in the end, the jury found the Bundys to be much less scary than the government. Tasering the defense attorney? Gunning down that guy before the standoff ended?

    I think the Bundys are cartoonish buffoons who were clearly guilty and successfully prevented any reasonable dialog about the Hammonds, but I also know lots of people alarmed by the governement.,

  26. And from what I’ve read subsequently, the real problem seems to be total incompetence on the part of the prosecution, aided by incompetence from the judge. The jury instructions led the jury to their decision. Jury instructions. So important!

  27. It is indeed appalling to read about the foundation contributions. I have just skimmed relevant articles, but is there any proof of favor granted?

    Sadly, the other candidate is still worse.

  28. Ugh. I can’t even watch this any more. It is a shame that she has done some shady stuff. The idea of a Trump presidency is terrifying. I am going to need some Xanax to get me through until Nov 8. Or maybe 2020.

  29. This is more water is wet stuff. We know the flaws in both these candidates.

    The FBI just said that it found another trove of emails that have not yet been analyzed and so we are reopening the investigation. There may be nothing at all new in them. The Director, who is a man in a difficult position all around, decided it was his responsibility to inform the partisan Congressional committees at this time knowing that it would become public and have an effect on the election. Previously, he was directed to let General Petraeus off very light, so light that he was constrained by his sense of precedent/fairness not to charge Clinton with anything because in his legal estimation her offense was less egregious. But he still thinks she deserved more, as do a significant fraction of the electorate.

    However, Sky’s comment is telling. There are folks that were winding themselves up to vote for Clinton against Trump that will stay home or cast a third party vote. There are folks that were going to cast a third party vote or sit this one out and will now cast a vote for Trump. The Clinton team was very proactive to encourage early voting – I don’t think they knew exactly what the Oct surprise was, but they were expecting something. If she is elected, the Foundation and what are we going to do with Bill are much more troubling to me than the emails, but I understand that others view it as a criminal security violation. Trump would simply refuse to put his investments into a blind trust and set up a firewall for his businesses – there is no law, AFAIK, that requires it, just custom, and we know that he is not bound by custom.

  30. I think Trump not putting his company in a blind trust is a big deal. He has shown throughout the campaign that he structures every single thing he can to financially benefit his holdings, not because it’s the most prudent path. As president, imagine that writ large. It is no different than what people are accusing the Clintons of, except for the clinton’s there does not seem to be any proof of the quid pro quo. I agree with Meme – these things confirm to each group that they are wrong and their opponents are blind to reality.

  31. WaPo is reporting that the Justice Dept had warned Comey that if he released that statement, he would be going against official department policy. But he did it anyway. Hmmm….

  32. Back in September, when Trump’s foundation was being analyzed, it looked like there was a quid pro quo – that he had used money from the foundation to donate to a campaign for a judge who later ruled in his favor on Trump University. Of course, that was the foundation that mainly seemed to exist to channel other people’s money into charity events that were held at Trump’s properties (imagine that), so he ended up benefiting indirectly.

    It is pretty clear that both candidates have shady financial dealings. But that isn’t the most important thing to me. In this election, do I vote for the candidate with a long track record of successfully operating in government, or for the insane guy who tweets incoherent rants in the middle of the night?

  33. I think Comey was in a tough spot. If he said nothing and it turns out there is something there, he is screwed. And if he says something and nothing is there, he likely is influencing the election. It is not strange that he came down on the side that offers the most downside protection to himself.

    What I don’t quite understand is why this is just now coming out. And why they didn’t review them and then get this info out (whether it is nothing or something there). I have been a part of large reviews of information similar to this. They have huge teams working on this. Certainly they could prioritize this and get it done quickly. There doesn’t seem to be much reason this information couldn’t be reviewed quickly. This whole thing has been bungled.

  34. The speculation in the press is that many of the emails may be duplicates of ones they have already reviewed. I personally think that either he should have waited until it was determined if there was anything likely to be a problem, or else, he should have written a much clearer letter. The letter was horrible and guaranteed to produce lots of speculation. I think the letter should have been longer, with more explicit discussion of exactly what was going on.

  35. “He has shown throughout the campaign that he structures every single thing he can to financially benefit his holdings, not because it’s the most prudent path. As president, imagine that writ large. It is no different than what people are accusing the Clintons of, except for the clinton’s there does not seem to be any proof of the quid pro quo.”

    IOW, Trump has historically been more transparent than either Clinton, which suggests that we could in the future also expect more transparency from him than them.

  36. “Justice Dept had warned Comey that if he released that statement, he would be going against official department policy.”

    I’m wondering what department policy was on responding to political pressure to let Petraeus off light, and to not charging HRC.

  37. He will when Hillary releases her 30,000 emails.

    Legally, there’s more of a mandate for Hillary to release those emails than for Trump to release his taxes.

  38. Finn, do you believe that if somehow Hillary still had those emails and released them tomorrow that Trump would release his tax returns?

  39. So they are in a transparency tit for tat. How does that translate to Trump being MORE transparent, as you claim. Not getting it.

  40. MBT, I’m pretty sure HRC did, or had her people do, their best to really delete those emails. I don’t see her going through the trouble of hiring some computer experts to try and recover them.

    Thus I think the question of Trump releasing his tax returns is moot. I don’t think he had any intention of releasing them.

  41. “Certainly they could prioritize this and get it done quickly.”

    OTOH, HRC and her team were trying to draw things out with the Judicial Watch lawsuit.

  42. “do I vote for the candidate with a long track record of successfully operating in government”

    Do you mean Gary Johnson?

    Seriously, does Hillary really have a track record of success in government? What real accomplishments does she have? As senator, what legislation did she get passed? As Secretary of State, did she successfully resolve any conflict?

  43. Mooshi, look at MBT’s 10:50 that I quoted at 1:48.

    “It is no different than what people are accusing the Clintons of, except for the clinton’s there does not seem to be any proof of the quid pro quo.””

    Trump is more transparent because he does not conceal the quid pro quo.

  44. “Trump is more transparent because he does not conceal the quid pro quo.”

    He won’t release his taxes!! How much crap do you think he is hiding there??? I assume quite a bit.
    He didn’t hide the crap in his foundation because a) legally those transactions had to be disclosed and b) I think he was so stupid he thought no one would check

    That foundation was basically a slush fund so he could pay off settlements, and direct charity events to his properties, which of course he profited from.

  45. We had an awesome day in Shenandoah National Park. Drove Skyline Drive for a while, ate lunch at an overlook, and did an afternoon hike to Herbert Hoover’s old camp retreat in the woods (never knew it existed).

    When we got back to the car, I was intrigued by the old VW Westphalia camper van that had since been parked behind us. I wanted to meet its owner. And I remarked to DW that, as polarizing as this election has been, it’s remarkable how the anti-Establishment sentiment that has been stirred in me has actually brought me closer and made me more sympathetic to this caravan’s owner (although I’m not sure he would feel the same about me).

    [IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/126ftis.jpg[/IMG]

    The front’s my favorite, as it’s slightly more subtle. It’s like a Higlights for Kids feature “How many hippie references can you spot in this picture?”

  46. And the back, with no issue left unmentioned:

    Who the Hell is this guy supposed to vote for now? Poor Bernie, he never stood a chance. The Clintons rigged the election against him from the start.

  47. “Poor Bernie, he never stood a chance. The Clintons rigged the election against him from the start.”

    Bernie should’ve never been in the conversation.

    My perception is that the Clintons rigged the election against all other likely D candidates, leaving the door open for an unlikely D candidate. It was inevitable that some other candidate would emerge, given Hillary’s baggage and dislikability (to coin a word; autocorrect suggested despicability instead).

    The van reminds me of cars I used to see around here when I was younger, but without the rust. It was common here for cars to rust, and some of them were covered by bumper stickers that appeared to hold them together.

  48. Milo – That Westfalia takes me back. I had the Vanagon with the air cooled engine for my brood – I wanted to get a Dodge Van (Caravans had not yet been developed), but I was too short – really – I couldn’t adjust the seat to see, reach the pedals and operate a standard transmission. However, I could stand up in the front and walk directly to the back to deal with the kids. I had a rigid no bumper stickers rule, though.

  49. Mémé, my mom had the same issue. They looked at the soon-coming-out minivan at the Farm Progress show in 1983 but ended up with a short wheel base Dodge 150.

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