Election 2016, October 2-8

Any election comments?

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97 thoughts on “Election 2016, October 2-8

  1. Kate, that’s… “You’re unsuspecting,” Trump said. “Right now, you say to your wife: ‘Let’s go to a movie after Trump.’ But you won’t do that because you’ll be so high and so excited that no movie is going to satisfy you. Okay? No movie. You know why? Honestly? Because they don’t make movies like they used to — is that right?”
    Wow.

    And Milo, I assume you agree that a $900 million dollar loss in 1995 “just makes him smart”?

  2. “Roger Stone ‏@RogerJStoneJr
    Wednesday@HillaryClinton is done. #Wikileaks.”

    So Wikileaks is going to dump some anti-Hillary crap on Wednesday.

  3. Re: the almost $1b NOL – I am of the opinion that it is fine to use the tax code as it is written. But it does raise (not beg) the question as to how the best, smartest person who has the best businesses had a $900m loss. WTF did he do? It is pretty much de facto proof that he is not a good businessman and would be living in a trailer down by the river if not for his father. And further proof that he hasn’t a clue how the regular Joes live. Pretty sure they don’t have any NOLs. And it is pretty funny that he is part of Romney’s 47%.

  4. Exactly, Kate. Likewise, I think that you should use the tax code to your advantage within the limits of the law. But 1995 was a decent year for business, overall. So WTF?

  5. It is also possible that the losses accrued over a bunch of years. So maybe he never made any income to offset those losses if he had almost $1b accrued in that year. I would love to see where they came from and how long it took for him to net them out (if he ever did). Of course, we likely will never know unless someone gets a hold of them. I do wonder who sent them to the Times.

    I do wonder how Trump supporters feel about this new information. I suspect that they do not care.

  6. Well, few revelations are going to budge the die-hard supporters of either candidate. The real question is what will it take to move the rest of us one way or another.

  7. Not sure anyone will move anymore. Can we just hold the election now and get this over with?

  8. So what did everyone think about last night? I didn’t like Kaine the Interupter. Pence is a good speaker. He is pleasant to hear if you don’t listen to what he is actually saying. He does seem presidential. Kaine was good at the policy stuff but his delivery was rough. Pence’s strategy of just denying things that Trump has said was unusual. Hillary already has an ad out of footage of Pence saying that Trump didn’t say things and Trump saying that very thing.

  9. did anyone else think Kaine was on cocaine?

    either way, I like him WAY better than Pence!

  10. What immediately struck me was that Pence didn’t seem very onboard with some of Trump’s policies, and seemed to even change some of them. I

  11. First, I wanted to say I really like being able to talk about politics here with people I respect who have different opinions than me, especially Scarlett and Milo.

    Pence scares me more than Trump. If I believe the hypothesis that Trump doesn’t really mean the things he says, then that should make him less scary. Pence actually believes what he says. I can’t get over his law requiring women to bury their miscarriage tissue. When I had a miscarriage at 7 weeks, I was extremely upset, but I would have been even more upset if every time I went to the bathroom for an entire week, I had to fish out possible miscarriage remains. How would that work? Would Pence provide special bags that I could carry around with me? What if I started my miscarriage when I didn’t have a bag with me? Or when I was at work? I’d hate to be breaking the law while also going through a very traumatic situation.

    When I try to ask people about this in normal conversations, they get all grossed out and don’t want to discuss it. But really how would that work?

  12. The scary thing is that Scarlett believes everything that Pence believes.

  13. I do not see the need to take pot shots. I do not agree with all of the stances Scarlett takes, but I very much respect her right to take them. She is very consistent in adhering to her faith across multiple subjects, which is much more than I can say for some of my IRL people. She is clear that her faith is the basis for her views, and her conclusions are supportable given the underlying religious views. I don’t agree with all of them, or more accurately, I disagree with the relative priority placed on one issue vs another, but I appreciate her being willing to share her thinking on why she makes the choices she makes.

  14. Thanks MBT!!
    I appreciate very much the respect we show one another on this board, especially when we disagree.

  15. anon for this,

    I agree that that particular law was a bad idea, even as I support the underlying premise of protecting human life from conception to natural death.

  16. Pence doesn’t scare me like Trump does. I disagree with his views, I think the Republican Party is really doing a disservice to its self by focusing on social issues and I feel like religion and politics should be totally separate things. But Pence can conduct himself in a way that doesn’t make me question his sanity. He isn’t provoked and baited by personal things and I think we could survive a Pence presidency rather unscathed. He obviously was setting himself up for some future roles and kind of throwing Trump under the bus, so we may get to see him again in 2020 even as a Trump presidency looks less and less likely. But even if Trump loses, he has done a lot of damage and I would have preferred a Pence-like opponent (but maybe one who believes in science).

  17. Scarlett – thanks for chiming in. I respect your position and greatly admire your faith. I’m glad we both agree that that specific law wasn’t good.

  18. I don’t have problem with people who’s faith makes them believe a certain position. My problem is when they try to impose those rules on others who clearly do not hold that same faith. But these are willing to impose their religious ideas on others by electing representatives who will be the instrumentalities of such imposition. I admire Kaine, because he has his own beliefs but does not want to impose them on others.

    It is fine to dislike Hillary for being mean to her personnel, supporting her hubby etc. but if you admire Trump and do not dislike him (because evidently he is worse in these same areas) then that is a problem.

  19. If Pence were running, I would be against him of course, and would still be sporting my Hillary Clinton T shirt. But my dislike of him is on a policy level. I don’t think he would do anything insane – he would just try to pass laws that I wouldn’t like. It is very different from the way I detest and fear Trump

  20. One other comment – a couple of days ago I noted here that Pence clearly is supporting some things that Trump does not support. Since then, a number of commentators have discussed this. I think the general consensus is that he was working more on positioning himself for 2020 than he was trying to support Trump (which is what the VP nominee is supposed to do)

  21. OK, Dell, I’ll give you that Trump making crude remarks and the LDS church maintaining its stance on gay marriage are equally unsurprising.

  22. Yeah, but groping women because he’s a “star” just makes him smart.

  23. Milo will be along shortly to tell us Hillary is waaaay worse than even Satan.

  24. RMS – lol

    Facebook has been fun to watch. Hillary supporters are still incredulous that Trump is Trump. Bernie supporters have fully jumped on the sanity train and are actively supporting Hillary. Trump supporters who have some sort of conscience have gone totally silent. And my Uncle Mike is still posting his racist $hit that is going to get him kicked out of Thanksgiving. 31 days left!

  25. Oh, and coming soon from Mike Pence: “Donald Trump never said that”.

  26. From the NYT Article: “During the exchange, with the television personality Billy Bush of the program ‘Access Hollywood,’ Mr. Trump recalls how he once pursued a married woman and ‘moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn’t get there,’ expressing regret that they did not have sex.”

    That might be the first time we have heard Trump admit to failing at something.

  27. I don’t think he can. In many places, the mail-in and absentee ballots have already been sent out. My friend in Minnesota says hers has already arrived.

  28. I think the electorate could just direct votes to whomever the RNC picks even if everyone votes for Trump. The electoral college has a lot of flexibility.

    But, let’s say he does drop out. Won’t half of his supporters freak out that the establishment has forced this? Either way, it seems the Republicans are screwed. The party should have decided to just protect the down ticket once this clown was nominated. He has dragged all of them down (I am looking at you Paul Ryan). And Reince Preibus is such a joker.

  29. I cannot stomach the republican politicians and the evangelical leaders (if that’s what we call Ralph Reed) who “deplore” his behavior but still support him for president (you, Paul Ryan, have daughters, too).

    I agree that the Republicans are screwed either way, but there may be some precedent in the 2000 Missouri senate race where Mel Carnahan died 3 weeks before the election, was elected, and then the process went on as if he had died in office. I’m just grasping at straws here, thinking there’s a way for Trump to resign.

  30. I don’t think they can force him out (nor do I think that they should be able to do so). They made this mess and created this monster. Romney and Kasich are looking good. Really good.

  31. Yabbut, the voters had a chance to nominate those guys in the primaries, and they didn’t.

  32. I just mean in terms of moral high ground/those who haven’t been tarnished by the Donald. The RNC is in shambles. It would be nice if the Romneys and Kasichs of the party could redirect to a party that is fiscally disciplined and gave up on all of the creepy social stuff that they have been obsessed with over the last 10 years. They lost and the country has moved on. The RNC needs some leaders to move the party forward. I sometimes vote for Republicans but I won’t vote for those who didn’t denounce Trump.

  33. I was checking his Facebook page, and this has made no difference to his followers including women! So he will not (and maybe cannot?) drop out. In a way it makes sense to me why it does not make a difference to his voters.
    Maybe it makes a difference to undecideds.
    I really wish we had some other candidate like kasich.

  34. From what I have seen, his supporters are either saying, (1) this is just boys being boys and all men say this stuff and if you don’t believe that you are stupid, and (2) Bill Clinton is much worse. And because he is so much worse, his wife is even worse than that. After all, she had the audacity to defend her spouse. And that is totally worse than raping someone. Or at least as bad. We’re not sure. But Benghazi!

  35. I don’t think it will make a difference to his supporters. You can observe his behavior and infer his attitude — the recording just caught him saying in “public” what these sorts of guys say when they are around those with similar attitudes and no microphone is on. He hasn’t been caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy, so he’s good to go as far as they are concerned.
    And, of course, there is the whole Bill Clinton behavior thing that complicates Hillary’s ability to stay on that high horse.
    Now, the undecideds are a different matter. Perhaps we will decide to stay at home.

  36. How was anyone suprised that Trump made remarks like that? To me, the more shocking thing is that he still is saying that those kids who were wrongly sent to jail for the Central Park jogger rape are guilty

    But everyone knew Trump is a playboy. What do people think celebrity playboys are like????

  37. Did anyone notice that a whole bunch of Hillary campaign email was leaked the same day? I suspect whoever had the Trump tape had it for a while and was waiting for the right moment. It totally drove the Wikileak dump off the news cycle

  38. When the RNC made their pact with the devil, they should have realized that this kind of crap would be out there. Trump was a crude, sexist playboy with a long trail. He was a creature of the media starting in the 80’s, He spent a lot of time on Howard Stern’s show, and sucking up to all kinds of celebs. They were so stupid – they should have realized there would be a lot of recorded stuff out there, and much of it would be off color.

  39. But I want him to hang on because it would leave the Democrats in disarray too should Trump quit. They would have to retool their campaign completely on the turn of a dime.

  40. And I said to my husband last night, I hope I NEVER see another election like this one. The Russian hacker thing is especially scaring me. This election is just so volatile.

  41. Trump’s comment that he hoped the Russian hackers could find Hillary’s lost e-mails was the same thing that Mr WCE and I had joked privately. Other than that, I don’t think I have anything in common with his sense of humor.

  42. Trump doubling down on the Central Park 5 does not surprise me. Do you really think he would ever apologize?

  43. No of course he wouldn’t apologize. But the whole thing just illustrates why I am so scared of him – his compete inability to admit he is wrong, coupled with intense racism. I had just moved to NYC when that thing happend, and I remember how he was screaming for the death penalty and taking out full page ads in the paper. I am not suprised at the crude, mean comments about women – that to me is par for the course with rich bozo sleazy playboys. I ammore suprised that the RNC did not have a contingency plan. They had to have known that a media trail would be a real danger.

  44. “I cannot stomach the republican politicians and the evangelical leaders (if that’s what we call Ralph Reed) who “deplore” his behavior but still support him for president (you, Paul Ryan, have daughters, too)”

    I would agree if the Clintons weren’t the alternative.

  45. Mooshi, Hillary’s leaked email didn’t get any attention because it was totally boring. No bombshells. That’s why Assange backed off the “October Surprise” crap.

    And I’m not remotely surprised that Trump talks like that. Of course not. Did you ever sit next to the sales douches at a big company party? They say way worse stuff (well, the ones at Ziff-Davis did). And calling women pigs, that was standard at my high school, as well as calling us dogs and barking at us and stuff. All the politicians do it, and their outrage is entirely feigned. But I still hope it persuades a few undecideds to vote against Trump.

  46. Oh, and I’m also hoping Trump goes on a late-night Twitter rampage just because it’s so damn entertaining.

    But Mooshi, I’m with you on the concern about Russian cyber crime and interference with electronic voting.

  47. RMS, the Hillary leaks were not going to sink her at this point, but would still have been fodder in the press, particularly because they contained some of those speeches that she had not released. And I am not shocked by the lewd Trump statements at all. Trump IS a sales douche bag, one who is particularly tied to the media. So of course that stuff is floating about. There are so many other things Trump has said, even just this week (illegals pouring across the border to vote!!) that have shocked far, far more – and it shocks me even more that so many people AREN’T shocked.

  48. https://mobile.twitter.com/billpruitt/status/784872190587998209

    Shocking, I tell you.

    In other news, my neighbor’s Trump sign is down.

    Can I just say that all of these people who now have turned on Trump have really pissed me off. So ridiculous. This is who he is and who he has been. You don’t get to make a fresh start now and pretend you are one of the good guys and be all outraged now. We never forget!

  49. The RNC has essentially withdrawn support for Trump and are now focusing entirely on the downticket candidates.

  50. “This is who he is and who he has been. You don’t get to make a fresh start now and pretend you are one of the good guys and be all outraged now. We never forget!”

    Oh please. Hillary and the Clinton supporters looked the other way for decades while Bill did far worse, and they attacked his victims. You forget when it suits you, Kate.

  51. Sorry, I hoped a preview would come through. That’s Lewis Black yelling at Millennials.

  52. Bill Clinton could not get elected today, given his past behavior. Bill Clinton is not running for President. Bill Clinton’s past creepy behavior in no way mitigates Trump’s creepy behavior. No one accepts “but Billy did it first!” as an excuse from an elementary school student – why would we accept that from a then-59 yr old who wants to be President?

  53. Nope. Bill wouldn’t get elected today. I can’t stand him. Hillary derangement syndrome is real and it looks like it is going to be the downfall of the RNC.

  54. I’m not saying to accept the excuse. I just won’t entertain the hypocrisy of Hillary or anyone else suddenly adopting moral superiority and outrage about casual attitudes toward sexual assault. It’s not like any of them voted for Dole. They’ve been fine with it for thirty years when it benefitted them.

  55. Kate – from your remarks, you made it seem that even supporting someone like Bill should be disqualifying. But obviously we know that’s not true.

  56. Cool. And you have no problem supporting those who defended him. Or voting for someone who discredited his victims.

  57. No, I don’t have a problem supporting his wife. I think most spouses would react the way that she did. I don’t really concern myself with the marriages of other people. And to that point, I feel sorry for Melania even though she chose to marry a cad. Now, do I like that Hillary went after some of the women? No way. But it doesn’t begin to rise to the level of what Trump has said and done to many marginalized groups. I can’t begin to understand how people compare the two and conclude that Hillary is worse. Additionally, as a woman and someone who fits in to another group that Trump went after, I don’t worry about what Hillary will do. She’ll make sure my rights are protected.

  58. I’m not thrilled that most high-level politicians are lying sleazebags when it comes to sex. I was really knocked sideways when John Edwards turned out to be such a scumbag, but I still liked his policies (and his hair!)

    My main concern about Trump is not that he grabs women’s crotches and chortles about it. My concern is that some day he’s going to call Angela Merkel a fat cow and drop a nuke on Berlin, just because he’s in a bad mood about his toupee having shrunk in the wash.

  59. “I’m not thrilled that most high-level politicians are lying sleazebags when it comes to sex.”

    I don’t think Obama or Bush are. Biden is fine. I don’t think Cheney has the heart for it. Literally. I don’t believe it’s true of O’Malley, Chaffe, or Webb; or Rubio, Kasich, etc.

    And then we end up where we are.

    It may very well work out better for the GOP to have Trump lose rather than having to defend and explain him for at least four more years. The Dems will win the Senate, and lose it swiftly two years later based on who’s up for reelection in 2018. And a Hillary administration makes it more likely the GOP does better in all the statewide elections in 2020, which will then determine the next decade’s Congressional boundaries.

    Just the best positive spin I can muster on an early post-mortem.

    Also, I’m going to want secure and cheap healthcare to make funding my early retirement at 52 a lot easier.

  60. “I think most spouses would react the way that she did.”

    Her top staffer Huma Abedin didn’t. At least, not this time.

    Bill isn’t running, but pulling the “character” card is a tough one for Hillary — “Trump’s behavior toward women makes him completely unsuitable to be President, but I’m fine with having someone who has behaved in a similar manner as a husband.”

  61. Scarlett, what exactly are all these disastrous policy consequences that you anticipate following Hillary’s election?

    Oh, and “husband” and “president” have entirely different job descriptions.

  62. Yeah, and we had an economic boom throughout the 90s. Can everyone stop worrying about everyone else’s genitals and address what these supposed disastrous policy consequences will be if we elect a Democratic president who is vastly more conservative than Nixon?

  63. Hillary doesn’t have to pull the character card. That is what is so great. She can just sit back and watch Trump light himself on fire.

    Huma is of my generation. For better or worse, we aren’t as accommodating as the one before us.

    But my issues with the RNC are that it took this to make them turn away from Trump. It wasn’t enough for them that this election season he attacked Mexicans, Jews, Muslims, people who have disabilities and more. Let’s not even get in to what he has said about women recently. I don’t understand why it took something he said more than 10 years ago in a private conversation. Oh, wait. Yes, I do. A lot of those undecideds are women. Once the RNC figured out he was toast, they backed away from him. And not a minute before that.

  64. “Scarlett, what exactly are all these disastrous policy consequences that you anticipate following Hillary’s election?”

    Well, much depends upon the composition of Congress. Assuming that the Democrats get control of one or both houses, then another four years of propping up Obamacare comes to mind, as does another four years of federal administrative over-reach on bathroom usage and “free” birth control (with “free” abortion sure to follow). But “extremely careless” on national security matters and the cavalier attitudes towards laws that apply only to other people are the most serious.

  65. She can’t possibly be more careless on national security than Trump. You must know that. And there will never be free abortions; the laws about abortion are only getting more restrictive. Of course I support easy access to both birth control and abortion, so we’ll never agree on that one. And the laws only applying to other people isn’t a policy issue. I’m more afraid of Pence’s “every woman an unwilling baby-oven” policy than anything else. But if I suggest that Pence will force women to be impregnated and then force them to bear the (white) children he and his ilk desperately desire, then I’d be about as paranoid as you guys are regarding Hillary.

    (and I think Pence would do that in a heartbeat if he thought he could get away with it.)

  66. I read an article on Hillary’s proposed tax increases and was rather impressed. I disagree with not indexing gift and estate tax for inflation, but the rest seemed reasonable. Given my impression of her policy that people with household incomes over $125k (independent of family size) should have no problem paying for college for their own children as well as paying taxes for the college of other people’s children, I was pleasantly surprised.

  67. “But I’m just not convinced that of the two evils, HE is the lesser.”

    I’m not either, but I’m also not convinced that SHE is the lesser either.

  68. I’m also not convinced that Trump actually did those things that he said he did with women. His history suggests that possibility.

  69. “supposed disastrous policy consequences will be if we elect a Democratic president who is vastly more conservative than Nixon?”

    Getting us into and/or escalating an armed conflict.

    My feeling is that she’s not as smart as she thinks she is, which has resulted in things blowing up in her face because she didn’t think things through enough and didn’t know what she didn’t know. As POTUS, such blowups will have much larger consequences.

    WRT college, IMO just finding more ways to pay for college is the wrong approach. We need to be looking more at why college is getting so expensive.

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