Election 2016, September 11–September 17

Trump, Clinton pledge to pause campaigns for 9/11
In a presidential race that has ignored most political conventions, both candidates promise to honor the anniversary.

After today, both candidates will resume their “plan to pummel each other all the way to November”.

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350 thoughts on “Election 2016, September 11–September 17

  1. Megan McArdle’s tweets put a logical spin on HRC’s fainting spell. However, voters don’t rely on logic alone.

    (((Megan McArdle))) ‏@asymmetricinfo 2h2 hours ago
    We’re now in a situation where there’s a very strong risk that the president will have a very serious health issue in the next 4 years.

    (((Megan McArdle))) ‏@asymmetricinfo 2h2 hours ago
    These are valid issues for a presidential campaign. However, they’d be more relevant if the other candidate weren’t basically the same age

    (((Megan McArdle))) ‏@asymmetricinfo 2h2 hours ago
    Health problems get worse when you’re pushing 70. Dehydration can produce stroke-like symptoms. My Mom nearly died from appendicitis.

  2. The upside for many Democrats is that Kaine is a relatively attractive candidate. (I think.)

  3. “You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the ‘basket of deplorables’. Right?” Clinton said to applause and laughter from the crowd of supporters at an LGBT for Hillary fundraiser where Barbra Streisand performed. “The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic — you name it.”

    “And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up,” she added.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/09/09/clinton-half-of-trumps-supporters-fit-in-basket-of-deplorables/

    It’s beyond ironic that she made these comments — drawing “applause and laughter” — at an LGBT event. Her audience was filled with people who ritualistically object to such gross generalizations when aimed at, oh, say, homosexuals and transgendered. But it’s OK to make fun of the Trump supporters, because they are THEM, and we are US. The only thing that Clinton forgot, in that cozy setting, was that the cameras were on.

    The incredible arrogance and superiority on display here, both on the part of Clinton and her audience, are a big part of why Trump is still at her heels.

  4. I follow Jim Wright on Facebook. He’s a cranky Army veteran and writer, and he has interesting things to say. Today’s weirdness is that he wrote an essay about 9/11, which I will link to below, that Facebook removed because it “violated community standards”. I’m not asking you to agree or disagree with the essay — I’m asking if you think it’s bizarre that FB would remove a reasonable (though opinionated) essay.

    http://usuncut.com/news/im-veteran-heres-im-not-going-shed-damned-tear-today/

  5. The fact that Facebook removed this post just goes to show that Facebook does not hold itself to freedom of speech standards. I have been very upset by the mass move to Facebook because as a private company, they don’t have to uphold freedom of speech. I don’t like that news organizations are using the platform so much, because Facebook can not only remove whatever it d**mn well wants, it can also choose to highlight or not highligt certain things.

    We are on a slippery slope here

  6. well, Rocky, I can actually see Facebook’s point. Not agree with their position/decision/action, see their point. If they’re going to take the iconic photo of the naked Vietnamese 9yo, which though protected by copyright is practically public domain IMO, off their site then I can see them taking down this piece for the repeated use of fuck in many of its forms. Community standards and all. I guess my community has lower standards.

  7. Simple. Facebook is a platform for other people’s and organizations speech. They do not write the content. The New York Times writes content. I am not saying that Facebook doesn’t have the right to limit free speech, as a private platform. I am just saying that we need to be very, very, very aware of that, and not confuse Facebook with an open platform.

  8. I guess partly it’s just that I’ve seen SO MUCH WORSE on Facebook. Why that one?

  9. Well, the plain ol’ Internet is an open platform. You can put up a site with any article you want. And the traditional news and books marketplace is open, of course, because of freedom of the press.

  10. I think oldstyle Usenet was completely open, and today, 4chan, which is why it is such a cesspool

  11. The danger in my mind, as news organizations and publishers post to Facebook, is if they (or we) forget that publishing there is not the same as publishing in the open marketplace, and that freedom of speech is not protected there.

  12. But there really isn’t an “open marketplace” on a single site like Facebook. All news organizations or sites have the freedom to choose what to publish; freedom of speech is not “protected” at the New York Times any more than on Facebook. The Internet as a whole is open, but all of its various components reflect the viewpoints of those who created them.

  13. The Internet is similar to the open marketplace. In traditional publishing, you set up your news organization, write the content, and publish it. On the Internet, you connet a computer, run Apache or whatever web server you like, write your content, and publish it (load it into your web server). The problem today is that people confuse Facebook with the Internet. My student, supposedly digital natives, have a lot of trouble making that distinction.

  14. Over the course of the campaign the health of the candidates have concerned me. In recent years we had three Presidents who were relatively young when they assumed office. Each of them got eight years and they leave looking much older.
    I know people are much healthier and active overall in their 70s but the Presidency is a demanding job. I hope who ever gets elected is healthy enough to carry out their duties for their entire term.

  15. Watching the Ken Burns documentary on the Roosevelts was a reminder that FDR was gravely ill when he won his fourth presidential term. Amazing that a man so sick could endure the rigors of a campaign and the last months of the war (including the 14,000 mile roundtrip to Yalta at the end). And though JFK appeared to be the picture of youthful vigor, he too had the sorts of serious health problems that would have prevented his victory (or nomination) in a Twitter world. Clinton’s pneumonia and whatever else she isn’t revealing, in comparison, seems like nothing.

  16. “I hope who ever gets elected is healthy enough to carry out their duties for their entire term.”

    Why? We don’t like either of them.

  17. Milo – I was just about to bring up that we better like their VP picks. It seems that everyone was paying attention to Kennedy and were shocked when LBJ was thrust into the Presidency. Ford had to assume office when Nixon resigned. So, in the not too distant past we have these examples. DH and I argue sometimes and BOTH of us have to read up before getting into an argument :-).

  18. Milo, I also have had pneumonia – and tried to take my kids out to the movies (it was the week after Christmas), and man did I look bad. I could barely walk. I couldn’t have possibly have lasted through 90 minutes of a public ceremony, which was the point at which she left.

  19. I think it's fair to say that the Clinton campaign has been withholding information about Hillary's health and that it intends to continue to withhold as much as it can. The Bardack statement seems only to push us back in a hope that we will not ask for more, and that came only after a very dramatic, impossible-to-ignore video of Hillary collapsing.
    http://althouse.blogspot.com/2016/09/5-thoughts-on-that-doctors-statement.html

    That video is dramatic; the optics are not good. It does make me wonder what info they’re withholding.

  20. “I couldn’t have possibly have lasted through 90 minutes of a public ceremony, which was the point at which she left.”

    Well that should certainly make the 90-minute debates interesting.

    I’m assuming she and other high-level officials were seated during most of the ceremony? In mild, 80-degree weather?

  21. I had pneumonia when my youngest was a few months old. I passed out in public when they were all with me. Very dramatic. Someone called an ambulance. My husband came. Maybe she has something more serious. Maybe she was just sick and in the best too long. I don’t really care. She could be on death’s door and I will still vote for her. Kaine would be a good stand-in. And there aren’t many people I wouldn’t vote for over trump, including my next Uber driver and the guy who makes my latte every day.

  22. She appeared to be in fine form with her friends at the LGBT forum Friday night, though her voice was noticeably hoarse during her “basket of deplorables” comments. Which were so dripping with sarcasm and disdain that the text does not do them justice. Why not just disclose the pneumonia on Friday, and perhaps cut back the schedule a bit to allow more rest time? And then pretending that she simply “overheated” at an event at which everyone else (including 9/11 victim family members presumably under emotional strain) handled without incident? And then keeping radio silence for 90 minutes before offering the “overheated” lie?
    No, it doesn’t look good. The only reason we were able to see the alarming degree to which she was impaired was because a bystander had his phone handy.

  23. Why not just disclose the pneumonia on Friday, and perhaps cut back the schedule a bit to allow more rest time?

    The optics are better to go and pass out than to cancel.

  24. Why not disclose the pneumonia? Because she can’t win with the tin foil hat people. What is the point? They would have gone nuts then, too.

  25. Which were so dripping with sarcasm and disdain

    Quite unlike your comments about the locals in your new locale.

  26. The abrupt and dramatic exit just doesn’t make sense. If you’re simply dehydrated, surely there was someone with a bottle of water nearby. She has a whole staff of people propping her up constantly. I didn’t see the ceremony, but she was almost surely seated comfortably. Knowing that such a departure, even without the cell phone videos, would create a story, if the issues were what they told us, wouldn’t you just stay put until you could make a graceful exit?

    Then you throw in her doctor doing some sort of on-the-spot neurological screening test:

    https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/hillary-clinton-health-1.jpg?w=348&h=196

  27. “Trump, at 70, is two years older than Hillary. It’s not like he’s a 48 year old triathlete.”

    Trump has made it very apparent than he has the stamina to go on and on for hours at a podium, for better or worse. But he’s not collapsing all over the place, getting blood clots, concussions, needing advisers to whisper “it’s OK to keep talking.”

  28. but she was almost surely seated comfortably.

    All the video and pictures I’ve seen has everyone standing.

  29. I don’t see anyone else collapsing, either.

    A valid point undermined by your need to make up the presence of comfortable seating.

  30. Rhett – I did indicate (moreso initially) that it was speculation. Still, it doesn’t seem to make sense that for dehydration they would need to make an abrupt exit, ensuring in advance that their own press corps was not allowed to follow them out, and THEN go not to an ER but to hide out in Chelsea’s apartment. Does Chelsea keep IVs handy, or did they need some sort of spell to pass?

  31. I don’t even agree with Clinton’s policies 100% and am closer to Donald on some. Even with her health issues, I will still vote for Clinton.
    I find it funny that Clinton haters are so frothy at the mouth about her statements the other day while blissfully ignore whatever comes out of Donald’s mouth.

  32. I was watching 9/11 footage yesterday and one commentator, not sure who or what station said it was the “worst of times” which I think we would all agree

    I kept thinking, don’t say it was the best of times

    he said it

    I know he meant it brought out the best in people, brought unity, etc but I would NEVER refer to 9/11 as “the best of times”

  33. “I find it funny that Clinton haters are so frothy at the mouth about her statements the other day while blissfully ignore whatever comes out of Donald’s mouth.”

    Donald Trump didn’t say that you can put at least tens of millions of Americans into a basket of deplorables.

  34. Ha Milo, he has done worse! He regularly says worse things about women, Mexicans or anyone else who does not agree with him!
    Also, going by comments on Donald’s Facebook page, you would think half his supporters are racists at least and worse.

  35. Dell – Cite some quotes that you think compare and are so dismissive of one quarter of American citizens.

  36. I don’t understand the outrage. It is like when Mittens made the comment about the 47% of Americans. It is what he thought. This is what she thinks. Maybe a dumb political move, but I would be happy to learn that only 1/2 of all Trump supporters are racist.

  37. Rhett – As weird as that was, it’s 1) about one specific person and, 2) he never actually said what was ascribed to him, but only said in reference to what he perceived as her confrontational nature in the debate that she came out with blood coming out of her eyes, or wherever.”

  38. I’d be thrilled with Kaine.

    I would almost be less happy with Pence than with Donald. Pence is against almost everything that I stand for. He’s so vehemently anti-gay and anti-woman under the guise of “Jesus”, that I am just waiting for the inevitable gay affair story to come out.

  39. JFK’s illness actually put the nation at considerable risk, because he got so hopped up on meth that his advisors had to step in sometimes. His physician, Max Jacobson, had a magic “vitamin” concoction that was mostly meth. A number of Hollywood actors got addicted to Jacobson’s vitamins too. Though it’s sensationalistic, this book: Dr. Feelgood: The Shocking Story of the Doctor Who May Have Changed History by Treating and Drugging JFK, Marilyn, Elvis, and Other Prominent Figures seemed reasonably well-researched to me. Quick read, and fairly scary. Wikipedia has the short version in its article about Jacobson.

  40. Clinton only regretted the percentage she attached to Trump’s basket of deplorables, not her characterization of them nor her description of the other half as poor scared objects of pity. To grossly generalize, she thinks that everyone who supports Trump — many of whom are “ABC” rather than true supporters — is either deplorable or pathetic. If you disagree with her, there is something wrong with you, because she is so clearly superior on every dimension.

  41. Of course there is Wilson too, who was deathly ill for over a year, and they kept it from the public. During WWI.

    I think it is much harder to keep serious illnesses secret today. Hence the cellphone camera video inciting all kinds of speculation about Clinton.

  42. “f you disagree with her, there is something wrong with you, because she is so clearly superior on every dimension.”

    That sounds exactly like how Trump feels about people who don’t support him.

  43. “Quite unlike your comments about the locals in your new locale.”

    Unfair, Rhett. We all make biting comments here. Scarlett’s comments about her community have been balanced, IMO.

  44. “He’s so vehemently anti-gay and anti-woman under the guise of “Jesus”, that I am just waiting for the inevitable gay affair story to come out.”

    You know, it is possible to support traditional marriage (as both Obama and Clinton publicly did until they evolved), or to oppose certain hate-crimes legislation, without being either “anti-gay” or a self-loathing closeted homosexual. A considerable segment of the population, including orthodox Jews, Christians, and Muslims, sincerely believes that homosexual activity is sinful. These are normal, intelligent, thoughtful people. They may well “evolve” too, but labeling them as “anti-gay” because they don’t agree with the progressive viewpoint on human sexuality is not particularly productive.

  45. I am surprised at the (faux) outrage over her comment. Everyone knew (or should have known) that this is how she and many people feel about Trump supporters. And we all know how Trump feels about the opposition and her supporters. The only thing that is disappointing is that I think her best shot politically is to stay above the fray, and she obviously gave in to some rather human emotions. We need Hillary-bot back.

  46. “That sounds exactly like how Trump feels about people who don’t support him.”

    Is that what he says about them? That they are deplorable, prejudiced, stupid, panic-stricken?

  47. but labeling them as “anti-gay” because they don’t agree with the progressive viewpoint on human sexuality

    What would you call them then – pro gay, gay ambivalent?

  48. The Kennedy White House stories fascinate me. There were women who were not checked before they were alone with him. The Secret Service had their concerns but nothing was done about it. It seems their suggestions were routinely ignored.
    RMS – I will check out that book.

  49. You know, it is possible to support traditional marriage (as both Obama and Clinton publicly did until they evolved), or to oppose certain hate-crimes legislation, without being either “anti-gay” or a self-loathing closeted homosexual.

    And yet, all the public figures who froth at the mouth about teh gaies are the ones who turn out to be exactly that. The louder you are about it, the more likely you are to get outed by your rentboy.

  50. “I am surprised at the (faux) outrage over her comment.”

    When Obama said:

    And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren’t like them, or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment, as a way to explain their frustrations.

    the response was

    I was taken aback by the demeaning remarks Senator Obama made about people in small-town America. His remarks are elitist and out of touch.

    “Everyone knew (or should have known) that this is how she and many people feel about Trump supporters.”

    If that’s true, then there are a lot of people who have been saying that Hillary is the better one to unite us and heal our divisions. That Trump (and implicitly Trump alone) is unsuitable for the Presidency because he stirs animosity.

    At the very least now, nobody can make that accusation singularly against Trump.

  51. “And yet, all the public figures…”

    Oh come on. Some, sure.

    “What would you call them then – pro gay, gay ambivalent?”

    What did you call Obama and Clinton a few years ago?

  52. I don’t think Hillary (or anyone) can unite us. The fact that the Republican nominee is Trump should be evidence enough to understand that. I just want someone who understands the basics of govt and foreign affairs, is reasonable intelligent and will push some of the ideas that I think are good for our country. If she were running against Jeb or Mitt or Ryan, we could have discussions about the faux outrage and who can bring us together, and criticisms against her would make me think a bit, etc. But she is running against a clown.

  53. What did you call Obama and Clinton a few years ago?

    Politicians? I get what you’re saying about Trump. When they asked him about Caitlyn Jenner and what bathroom she should use Trump said – “Whatever one she feels is most appropriate.” People were all, “You can’t say that you’re the Republican nominee!” It is refreshing to see someone say what they actually feel.

  54. “No, that they are on the rag.”

    That. Or “losers”. “Pathetic”. And he’s threatened to use the power of the Presidency to get back at everyone who has wronged him in the campaign.

    Pence is not just “out of line with the progressive stance on gay rights” or a “supporter of traditional marriage”. He is extreme even for his party. And he is not just giving it lip service to pander to the base like some Republicans. He is a true believer, and he pushes through his agenda in office as much as possible. It seems to be his top priority.

    His views on abortion are similarly extreme. And he has made plenty of statements about the role that he feels women should play in modern society. Suffice it to say – I do not agree with either.

  55. I would call HRC and Obama anti-gay until they changed their position. Change is good. It should be encouraged.

  56. What did you call Obama and Clinton a few years ago?

    Annoyingly political. That they didn’t support marriage equality when it was clearly time to do so is not one of my favorite things about either of those two.

  57. Milo, I don’t think Clinton supporters have any illusions about her uniting the party, or that she is not a through and through “politician”. Don’t know why you are accusing us of harboring any illusions?
    But at the end of the day all said and done, prefer Clinton by a mile over the other candidate and by a million miles over his vp choice. I am a conservative thinking for my personal life but will loathe if some politician tries to impose any restrictive views on others. Maine will make an excellent president of it comes to that.

  58. “I don’t think Clinton supporters have any illusions about her uniting the party, or that she is not a through and through “politician”. Don’t know why you are accusing us of harboring any illusions?”

    Dell – I could just take her at her word. A direct quote from Hillary:

    The final test is whether the (next) president will unify us. I’ve seen a lot of evidence that Donald Trump is a divider, not a uniter. We have a decision to make whether we’re going to move ahead together or build walls instead of bridges.

    I guess her bridges would not extend to the 50 million or so “deplorables.”

  59. “It is refreshing to see someone say what they actually feel.”

    Trump seems to do that a lot, so you must love him!!

  60. Well of course she says that. She is a politician. Trump says that he would be terrific. No one can really believe that. You seem to think that voters don’t understand the very real issue that Hillary has. We do! We just don’t care!

  61. “I guess her bridges would not extend to the 50 million or so “deplorables.” ”

    She has already indicated her pride in making enemies of Republicans. A uniter she is not.

  62. Kate – What’s important is that after this gaffe, Hillary has completely ceded the moral high-ground.

    Even on here, it’s been reduced to “Well, she’s just a politician. Of course she hates 50 million Americans and has no interest in doing anything for them. I’m OK with that.”

    We’ve come a long way in realism.

  63. What’s important is that after this gaffe, Hillary has completely ceded the moral high-ground.

    You wish. She’s done so much good for so many people over the years that one sentence isn’t going to do squat.

  64. I guess I disagree with that. It is virtually impossible to cede the moral high ground when dealing with Trump. That is why I such an internal struggle. I want Hillary to win. I think she is probably the most qualified and smart candidate when have ever had. But she has some serious drawbacks. Having Trump as the opposition, however, has pretty much erased as ethical or moral concerns that I have re: Hillary, so I thank him for that.

  65. “It is virtually impossible to cede the moral high ground when dealing with Trump.”

    this is a serious question. How are they truly any different at this point in terms of moral high ground? You admit that Hillary has serious ethical faults. When we point out that Hillary hates a quarter of all American citizens and considers them “deplorables,” you say “of course she does. everyone knows that.”

    So on what basis does she hold this moral high ground?

  66. Trump seems to do that a lot, so you must love him!!

    I do respect him for saying what he thinks. I think he’s wrong about a lot of things (and right about many things as well) but I do like the strain of honesty that his gaffs* reflect.

    * Gaffe – When a politicians accidentally tells the truth.

  67. At a very basic level, Trump says things that would make me ashamed if I were his mother. Hillary hasn’t done that. And this may be too fine a point, but imo, there is a huge difference between not liking someone for their views v not liking someone for what they are. Trump does a lot of the latter. I always laugh when people get all bothered that Dems are supposed to be tolerant and yet they don’t tolerate a lot of things. I just want to say, “Nope! That isn’t how this works!”

  68. Rhett, I agree that Trump generally speaks without a filter. Other than being NotHillary, it is his most positive trait.

  69. Milo, Donald seems to hate anyone who is not him! He like people only when they are useful to him. Donald makes gratuitous hateful and disparaging remarks about anyone and everyone. What Hilary said is what those of us who dislike what Donald stands for, feel about his supporters, albeit from their online comments. Donald’s supporters seem to be full of hate, making racist comments, attacking Clinton and Clinton supporters in every possible despicable way possible. Can’t blame us for judging what is put forth.

  70. “Trump says things that would make me ashamed if I were his mother. Hillary hasn’t done that.”

    Begging the question.

    “Donald seems to hate anyone who is not him! He like people only when they are useful to him.”

    How can you draw that conclusion about Donald and not Hillary, except for the fact that you go on to say that you personally agree with Hillary’s version of hate?

  71. I don’t understand the question. I understand where Hillary is coming from and don’t think there is any hate. Some dismissiveness and no kumbaya circle of inclusiveness, but I don’t see hate with her. I will tell you the point that totally made me hate Trump at a visceral and basic level – When he mocked that reporter. I can’t get over that. He isn’t fit to be president.

  72. “I understand where Hillary is coming from and don’t think there is any hate.”

    Then you need a dictionary.

    Merriam Webster defines deplore as “to hate or dislike (something) very much : to strongly disapprove of (something)”

  73. Milo, clearjy not what I said. If you read what I wrote, I clearly say that Donald seems to hate or look down upon anyone who is not him just because! -for simply being!

    On the other hand, those Trump supporters claim the title of deplorables by their own doings or writings. Sometimes I really feel shocked and weary after reading. So much hate!

  74. Don’t know what to say. He makes things personal. She doesn’t. I trust her to conduct herself in a way that is respectful when dealing with foreign affairs. I don’t think he has it in him. I find him to be an appalling human being (and I have never thought that about a candidate before; most recently I thought that Mitt was a really good guy, just not my guy).

  75. You are smart enough to discern between hate of people and hate of what they stand for. Sometimes I fail to understand your arguments here!

  76. “On the other hand, those Trump supporters claim the title of deplorables by their own doings or writings. Sometimes I really feel shocked and weary after reading. So much hate!”

    Dell – You read comments on news sites and you feel comfortable extrapolating that to pre-judge the nearly half of all Americans who have expressed support for Trump? Or even the half of the half?

  77. “You are smart enough to discern between hate of people and hate of what they stand for.”

    Apparently I’m not.

    “To just be grossly generalistic, you can put half of Trump supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?”

    Please point out where Hillary draws that discernment.

  78. “He makes things personal. She doesn’t. ”

    So instead of having these weird personal feuds with people like Megyn Kelly, you think it’s better — that there’s moral high ground — to simply consider half of all Americans your enemies, and half of them to be deplorables?

  79. All of the Trump supporters I know IRL can be put in that basket. 100%. From that I extrapolate that a good% are similar, paeticuarly when Trump has said what he has said and it is excused because of emails! Or Benghazi! I don’t read the comments to online articles ever.

  80. “Pence is not just “out of line with the progressive stance on gay rights” or a “supporter of traditional marriage”. He is extreme even for his party. And he is not just giving it lip service to pander to the base like some Republicans. He is a true believer, and he pushes through his agenda in office as much as possible. It seems to be his top priority.”

    my link is in response to this, Pence is crazy conservative

  81. “Milo, I think you are in the other half of Trump supporters”

    but that other basket are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures—they’re just desperate for change. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.

    Nah, that’s not me. Although we’re certainly not wealthy, we’re doing OK.

  82. I don’t know you IRL. My best friend is a Trump supporter. She knows how I feel. I think her view is deplorable. She definitely has some racist beliefs that I call out. This only works because I have known her for so long. More like a sibling relationship.

  83. Am I a deplorable?

    No, I’m just mystified by where you’re coming from. You objected to the 22 suicides a day number on grounds that no one knows anything but it turned out that all you objections were addressed and the number was pretty much accurate. But, that may have just been a bad example. I’d be interested if you could expand on what you actually meant.

  84. Yes, Milo, from what I read online, those who write that, deserve to be in deplorable category! Right or wrong, when you associate with a people, you are considered to be like minded by reason of association!

    I don’t talk politics with people in real life, so I can’t comment on that aspect. But those who I know support Trump, don’t like Clinton because she is such an aggressive woman!

  85. “Yes, Milo, from what I read online, those who write that, deserve to be in deplorable category! Right or wrong, when you associate with a people, you are considered to be like minded by reason of association! ”

    Common justification for prejudice and bigotry.

  86. And I am really baffled by Trump supporters here! I know you are not in the deplorable category from what you write here, so the support surprises me. I know Milo supports Trump because he hates Clinton. :)

  87. “I know Milo supports Trump because he hates Clinton. :)”

    That’s most of it. Some of it is that for which Rhett just expressed his admiration.

    Another part is that I’m something of a subscriber to what I imagine as the common man-as-a-politician ideal of our nation. I think Cabinet secretaries and other advisers should be bookish experts, but the actual Presidency (or Senate seat) should be open to just about anyone, perhaps not unlike the way we don’t expect the Commander in Chief to have any military experience or particular expertise.

    Finally, as the parties have continued to realign in the past few cycles, I strongly resent the double standard that allows disparaging the white working-class “deplorables.” If you could go back four years on these posts, you would see my strong criticism of Romney’s 47% remarks. So I like a good populist.

  88. Milo – I remember your criticism of the 47% comment! You said something like it was almost enough to make you vote for someone else. I remember because I didn’t understand the big deal. I would have assumed that is what he thought, even if he didn’t say it.

  89. Only around 125M Amerucans register to vote. Of them, around 40-ish percent are voting for Trump, but a portion of those are in the anyone-but-Hillary camp, with the other portion being true Donald supporters. So in my mind, she lumped about 20-25M Americans into the deplorables category. An AP survey carried out by a few universities reported that 51% of Americans harbor racist attitudes towards blacks. In my experience, that seems very high, but maybe it’s not something people express around me. But if you use racist tendencies as a basis for her deplorables basket, 51% of white Americans results in around 75M people, and that is before you add in whatever other categories she included – anti-gay, misogynistic or whatever. I don’t agree with her labeling, but I also think it’s right to call out the white nationalist and racist support for Trump. So is the objection to her labeling, or the number of people she included? Because there seems to be some support for the fact that a frighteningly large chunk of US population is somewhat racist.

  90. “Although you don’t seem to be a fan of most populist policies.”

    Not at all. I’m personally conflicted, but respectful toward gun rights. I support a stronger Child Tax Credit/EITC. I’m generally suspicious of policies that unnecessarily raise the prices of energy or other commodities that average Americans need, or unduly restrict the industries that provide jobs to the working class.

  91. “51% of Americans harbor racist attitudes towards blacks”

    I saw an explanation of that or a similar poll that asked respondents to agree or disagree with a statement like “blacks are more violent.”

    How is one supposed to interpret that? As in inherently, in a biological or genetic sense, or based on longstanding demographic statistics of who commits a disproportionate number of violent crimes in America.

    The question didn’t say, but if you interpret it incorrectly, you’re a racist.

  92. but that other basket are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures—they’re just desperate for change. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.

    I don’t believe I’m one of those people. So, because I can’t bring myself to vote for Hillary, and I’m not voting libertarian, I’m deplorable.

    That makes two Democrat candidates in a row who have pointed out that I am just a bad person.

  93. I’m generally suspicious of policies that unnecessarily raise the prices of energy or other commodities that average Americans need, or unduly restrict the industries that provide jobs to the working class.

    I assume you oppose Trumps plan to impose 45% tariffs on China and oust Mexico from NAFTA given what that would do to prices at Walmart.

  94. “Cabinet secretaries and other advisers should be bookish experts, but the actual Presidency (or Senate seat) should be open to just about anyone, perhaps not unlike the way we don’t expect the Commander in Chief to have any military experience or particular expertise”

    I’m assuming when you say “we” you mean the general population, and not those on this board. If “we” don’t expect the Commander in Chief to have any military experience or particular expertise, why do “we” focus on that for every election I can remember?

    The experience (military or governmental) may matter less when the candidate is in office, but to get to the office, it seems to matter a lot to the general population.

  95. Cordelia, is it desperation that gets Trump supporters to be so openly racist and misogynist?

    I wasn’t aware I was openly racist and mysogynistic

  96. MBT – Back to your survey, this may be one of the ones you’re referring to:

    Explicit racial attitudes were gauged using questions designed to measure “Symbolic Racism” (Henry & Sears, 2002). The questions, averaged into a single index, were:

    “Irish, Italians, Jewish, and other minorities overcame prejudice and worked their way up. Blacks should do the same without special favors.” (Coding: Strongly disagree = 0, Somewhat disagree = .25, Neither agree nor disagree = .50, Somewhat agree = .75, Strongly agree = 1).

    “Generations of slavery have created conditions that make it difficult for Blacks to work their way out of the lower class.” (Coding: Strongly agree = 0, Somewhat agree = .25, Neither agree nor disagree = .50, Somewhat disagree = .75, Strongly disagree = 1).

    “It’s really a matter of some people just not trying hard enough; if Blacks would only try harder, they could be just as well off as whites.” (Coding:
    Strongly disagree = 0, Somewhat disagree = .25, Neither agree nor disagree = .50, Somewhat agree = .75, Strongly agree = 1).

    “Over the past few years, Blacks have gotten less than they deserve.” (Coding: Strongly agree = 0, Somewhat agree = .25, Neither agree nor disagree = .50, Somewhat disagree = .75, Strongly disagree = 1).

    “Over the past few years, Blacks have gotten more economically than they deserve.” (Coding: Strongly disagree = 0, Somewhat disagree = .25, Neither agree nor disagree = .50, Somewhat agree = .75, Strongly agree = 1).

    “Some people say that Black leaders have been trying to push too fast. Others feel that they haven’t pushed fast enough. What do you think?” (Coding: Haven’t pushed fast enough = 0, Pushing at about the right speed = .50, Trying to push too fast = 1).

    “How much of the racial tension that exists in the United States today do you think Blacks are responsible for creating?” (Coding: Not much at all = 0, Some = .33, Most = .67, All of it = 1).

    “How much discrimination against Blacks do you feel there is in the United States today, limiting their chances to get ahead?” (Coding: A lot = 0, Some = .33, A little = .67, None at all = 1).

    To summarize, if I may, if you don’t support “special favors” for blacks, if you believe that blacks are capable of getting ahead without special treatment, if you don’t think that slavery is holding them back today; i.e., if you’re not a progressive, then you’re a racist.

    Shocking.

  97. Milo – thanks for the context. I couldn’t remember where I saw it or what university was involved, but thought 51% seemed very high. I should have realized poorly worded questions could have skewed the results. It makes me feel better that the number is likely inflated.

  98. Cordelia, I was referring to your first sentence, where I assume you were talking about group of Trump supporters and not yourself. What made you think I was talking about you? I really don’t know you.

  99. I am sorry, but the kind of people who wear or sell “Trump That Bitch” Tshirts at Trump rallies are deplorable. It is deplorable that political discourse has sunk to this level. I am embarrassed that the first campaign that my kids have really followed has been this deplorable.

  100. “”How stupid are the people of Iowa? How stupid are the people of the country to believe this crap?””, Trump, Nov 2015

    I do not get the double standard. Trump always gets the pass. He spews meanness and nastiness on a daily basis. As far as I can tell, he hates everyone except himself and Vladimir Putin. The only quotes that are positive seem to be ones where he says how smart and rich he is. I think he truly sees himself as better than everyone else. Trump offends me, every day.

  101. “I think he truly sees himself as better than everyone else.”

    He’s not alone in that regard. “Extremely careless” Clinton has that attitude nailed as well.

  102. “Filmmaker Ami Horowitz is back with another video social experiment. This time he decided to gauge the reactions of right and left to signs supporting the opposite political candidates for President. The responses are very revealing.”

    They sure are. Even allowing for generous editing on the part of Horowitz, there was a whole lot of hating going on outside the Democratic convention. It’s not possible for Clinton supporters to claim the high road on this point.

    http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/video-filmmaker-ami-horowitz-tests-tolerance-rnc-and-dnc-conventions

  103. Scarlett,

    It seems like you support Trump in spite of his policy preferences rather than because of them. Is you support primarily driven by your agreement with his policies or your animus toward HRC?

  104. As I mentioned up thread, that isn’t how this works! You just need to be tolerant about stuff that doesn’t affect others. Like, gay marriage. Doesn’t affect me, so I am tolerant of it. Abortion. Doesn’t affect me, so I am tolerant of it even though I personally am not ok with it. Tolerance does not mean thinking everyone’s opinion is correct or ok. And it is even ok to dislike someone because of their views.

  105. What Kate said. Scarlett, I think we’ve been around this particular block at least a couple of times before. You’re going to continue to misunderstand what liberal tolerance is about because it pleases you to do so. Okay.

  106. You just need to be tolerant about stuff that doesn’t affect others.

    Murder, ok as long as I’m not getting killed.

    Illegal immigration, ok as long as my kids don’t have to go to a school overwhelmed with non English speakers

    Driving entire industries out of business (e.g. coal) ok as long as its not my industry

  107. No! If we allow murder, someone could murder me. Contrasted to abortion where no one is going to force me to have one.

  108. If one believes it’s infanticide, the argument that “it doesn’t affect *me*” is moot, as you wouldn’t say the same about people killing their children post-partum.

  109. Sure I did. Not sure of the point. There are assholes on both sides. But that doesn’t change what the tolerance that we are taking about means.

  110. Exactly. Slavery ok so long as I’m not forced to own slaves.

    Rhett, I *don’t* support Trump. But I will not vote for Clinton, and though I’m not a Trump fan by any means, I can’t jump to the conclusion that most of his supporters are deplorable or stupid simply because I don’t agree with their views.

  111. I think you guys are being intentionally obtuse. Let me be clear – no. Slavery is not ok because that affects other people adversely. We can go round and round about this if you want.

  112. “Slavery is not ok because that affects other people adversely.”

    They weren’t really considered people.

  113. I can’t jump to the conclusion that most of his supporters are deplorable or stupid simply because I don’t agree with their views.

    You’ve made enough “sarcastic” comments to indicate you do think they are stupid. You think that of the university staff is stupid, let alone Joe Sixpack.

  114. Well, there is made up shit like that stuff that is rooted in racism and not generally thought to be true any more. And then there is science.

  115. Kate, it’s exactly the same. The law and most white people treated slaves as less than human so slavery was ok. Today, the law and many people treat unborn children as less than human so abortion is ok.

  116. That is crazy. A fetus might be loved and wanted but it isn’t the same as a baby who isn’t a parasite. And I am not even a person who thinks abortion is good. But there is a huge distinction between a baby who is separated from the mother’s body and one that isn’t. I had a baby at a gestational age that many people have abortions. He absolutely was different once he was born.

  117. “But there is a huge distinction between a baby who is separated from the mother’s body and one that isn’t.”

    Other than the obvious location and umbilical cord separation, what?

  118. “Your beliefs stop at my body!”

    Yeah, that’s a catchy phrase and all, but a slaveholder had a very legitimate claim to his own property.

  119. Don’t have to balance life of mother v life of fetus. When 2 things inhabit one body, in some situation, we have to pick which is more valuable. If a pregnant woman develop sudden severe pre-eclampsia, they deliver the baby, whether the steroid shots have had 48 hours to take effect or not. They don’t risk damaging the woman’s kidneys to save the baby. Do you think the doctors who do that are killing a human?

  120. Kate – I’m not even taking a position on this. I’m just pointing out how these common little retorts are not always logical, nor hold up to historical analogy. The comparison to slaveholders is absolutely legitimate and not a strawman or obtuse.

    But yes, to answer your question, when DW had a miscarriage, it was a human life that was lost. I didn’t father a kitten. The baby was previously alive not by some sort of religious belief, but by every definition of biology. To argue otherwise means you must be Anti-Science.

  121. I am not sure what to say. Slaves are humans. A fetus is not. I agree it has life and value, but a human it is not. I guess we disagree.

  122. “Slaves are humans. A fetus is not.”

    What is it? If you opened up your 9th Grade Biology textbook and went down the Kingdom/Phlyum…, where would you place “fetus”?

  123. Again, don’t understand the point of the question. And I am not getting in to the miscarriage thing because I am sure you know there is no way I can respond without sounding like an asshole. But let me leave you with this – with the birth of my first child, they thought that I was having a placental abruption but weren’t sure. Maybe I could have lived if they had waited to see if I really was having one. Certainly if they had waited and determined that I was not, it would have been better for my oldest. But they weren’t going to let me potentially bleed out to find out. No one had me make a decision about it. It was clear that they were going to try to save my life, come hell or high water. Do you think the were wrong to do so? Was I wrong? I suspect the answer is no. And you can only conclude that if you agree that my life was someone different from the life of the fetus.

  124. “Do you think the were wrong to do so? Was I wrong? I suspect the answer is no. And you can only conclude that if you agree that my life was someone different from the life of the fetus.”

    I don’t think you were wrong to do so, now do I know anything about the specific situation.

    “Somewhat different from the life of the fetus” is nowhere near the same as saying “it’s not a human,” which you had attempted to argue.

  125. To me those two things are the same. If it is different from my life, it can’t be the same thing.

  126. Then again, we’re back to if a fetus is not human, what is it? It has to be something. You can’t seem to answer that.

    My kids’ lives have different value than my own. If we’re on a sinking ship, I’m putting them on the lifeboat and putting myself in the icy waters if necessary. That doesn’t make me something other than human.

  127. And if all we are arguing about is how to label it, I am happy to call a fetus a human. The part that matters is that it isn’t the same thing as a person who is here without inhabiting it’s mother’s body, including a slave.

  128. Of course a fetus is human. What else would it be, a Martian? It is composed of human cells. So are my gums. If I dig my nail into my gums I will kill human cells. No one will accuse me of murder.

  129. Don’t you fuckers make me deliver my Bioethics 101 lecture about the difference between being human and being a person. Personhood is different from simply being composed of human cells. Aliens might well be persons. Lt. Data was a person. Persons get different protections from collections of human cells.

    Yeah, views evolve over time. What about it? You’re not really going to go from “views evolve over time as science, religion, philosophy, etc. allow us to see things in different perspectives” to “who’s to say, man? Everything’s radically relative and I can kill whoever I want.” You just aren’t going to do that because you just aren’t that much of a sophist.

  130. But, Milo, that is based on your subjective feelings about them. That 4 year kid who has been plastered all over because his parents were high and passed out in a car while he was strapped in a car seat in the back isn’t valued as highly by his parents, but he has the same objective standing as your kids. A fetus is different. It has an objective difference from a person who can function without being inside another being.

  131. Right, to borrow from Rocky’s lecture, it’s reasonable and legitimate to have differences of values, ethics, and opinions on when human life warrants personhood. Getting back to the original argument, a functioning society can’t simply say that the only basis for law should be “as long as it doesn’t affect me.”

  132. Again, the question isn’t whether it affects me. Itnis whether it affects others (as in others with personhood status as Rocky calls it). To the extent that it doesn’t, people should have tolerance for such things. Which basically means to MYOB.

  133. And by your logic, you’d have been telling the abolitionists to mind their own business (as many in the country were).

  134. I messed up and put my response in the other thread. The short answer – those in a uterus are different from those not in one. If it doesn’t affect someone out of a uterus, myob.

  135. “But, Milo, that is based on your subjective feelings about them. That 4 year kid who has been plastered all over because his parents were high and passed out in a car while he was strapped in a car seat in the back isn’t valued as highly by his parents, but he has the same objective standing as your kids.”

    And the babies whose lives end in an abortion clinic have the same objective status as those desperately wanted unborn babies whose lives end in a tragic accident or miscarriage. The only difference is the subjective feelings of their parents about them. That’s why the same living being that happy parents call their “baby” in Facebook sonogram postings can be called “the products of conception” by Planned Parenthood.

  136. “Each of them got eight years and they leave looking much older.”

    I have a couple of photos at my desk of me with DD, one taken about 7 years ago, and one about 4 years before that. I can seen that I look noticeably older than the me of 7 years ago, and the me of 11 years ago looks noticebly younger than both of the later mes.

    In Obama’s case, one thing people notice is his graying hair. A lot of men experience significant graying in their late 40s through early 50s.

  137. “The short answer – those in a uterus are different from those not in one. ”

    I agree.

    The line is constantly changing. e.g., as advances in medical science move the point of survivability outside the uterus.

  138. “* Gaffe – When a politicians accidentally tells the truth.”

    LOL. It’s funny because it’s true.

  139. Scarlett – I agree that those are the same thing. But different from a baby who is alive not in a uterus.

  140. No, Kate and everybody else of her educational level would have been arguing about the status of slaves. You start with your Platonic Ideal Person. Let’s call him Milo. He is a white man in good health, between the ages of 20 and, oh, let’s say 60. He is strong, capable of fighting, capable of earning money, capable of calculus, uses language, and a bunch of other things that Platonic Ideal Persons can do. It is not and cannot be a set of necessary and sufficient conditions, because it isn’t a game of parcheesi. But there is a constellation of characteristics we can all agree on. There are other characteristics that remain contested.

    Then we start comparing (e.g.) black African slaves. Hm, they use language, they’re strong, they have many physiological similarities to Milo along with some differences, they are capable of producing fertile offspring when crossed with white females, they can learn calculus, they have similar affective and conative powers of the mind, just like Milo. Then someone else lists the differences. Then everyone fights over whether the differences are due to nature or nurture. Then someone else finds counterexamples. Eventually (as it happened) we reach the conclusion that black African slaves are in fact persons and should be treated as such.

  141. “I think she is probably the most qualified and smart candidate when have ever had. ”

    I don’t think she’s the smartest candidate we’ve ever had (I assume that is what you typed, but your phone changed it to what was posted).

    Obama and Bill Clinton come to mind as POTUS candidates who I think are probably smarter than HRC.

    Also HRC’s perception of HRC.

  142. Best combo of smart and qualifications. Lots have been smart. None have been smart with her experience.

  143. HRC might be a stronger candidate without the experience. Her experience of lying and covering up aren’t exactly rousing endorsements of her candidacy. We can speculate about what Trump would do when entrusted with classified information, but we don’t really know.

    As for being smart, she failed the DC Bar exam on her first try.

  144. So did Kathleen Sullivan, Cardozo, FDR and my summer office mate who was a double Yale grad. It happens.

  145. On what basis do we think Hillary’s so exceptionally smart, and not just typical-Totebagger smart?

  146. Only a tiny fraction (<5%) of Yale grads fail the bar exam.

    WHICH bar exam? As you well know, some are more difficult than others. They don’t all take the same one.

  147. Also, is that statistic corrected for year of graduation? Is that current, or 1969, or what?

  148. I have no idea how hard the DC bar exam is. No one ever takes it because everyone gets reciprocity based on being licensed in another state. I have a DC license but I took the VA and Cal bar exams.

  149. “On what basis do we think Hillary’s so exceptionally smart, and not just typical-Totebagger smart?”

    I don’t think she’s so exceptionally smart, but I think she does.

    But I would be interested in seeing some measures of her smartness, e.g., SAT scores, LSAT scores.

  150. I don’t think LSAT score is a good proxy for intelligence. I know my LSAT score and I know what my IQ was when I was younger. I am in vastly different percentiles.

  151. Dumb people generally don’t go to Yale, especially as a woman when she did. It is ok. You are free to think that she is a box of rocks!

  152. Milo, if we are worrying about intelligence, then what do you think of Trump’s intelligence? He certainly has said many times that he has a superior intellect. However, I have also heard many rumors that he has severe ADHD and is unable to focus more than a few minutes at a time on anything. Obviously, this is based on a lot of speculation and rumor, but then most of what we are discussing with regards to Clinton is also based on rumor and speculation.
    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/donald-trump-attention-span-214223

    For me, Trump is so much the issue that I would rather focus on him.

  153. “Dumb people generally don’t go to Yale”

    BTW, dumb people generally don’t go to Wharton either.

  154. “For me, Trump is so much the issue that I would rather focus on him.”

    A lot of people feel the same about Hillary.

    And then there are the many who feel disappointed at the lack of a better choice.

  155. People feel that way about Hillary because she is constantly grilled. Trump gets a pass at every turn. Look at the way Matt Lauer treated him. It was like he was afraid that Trump might fall apart or something, or probably worse, swear at him, if he grilled him the way he had just done with Hillary. Trump is like a word cloud of lies and stupidity, but no one seems to care.

  156. And while I am in rant mode, the other double standard that has been sending up a wall all year, and is only getting worse, is the double standard in which it is OK to say horrible, snobbish, nasty things about people who are NOT white and rural, but boy oh boy, we better not say anything about them. I am tired of being told I am part of the corrupt system. I am tired of being told that because I don’t do NASCAR or own a gun, that I am not a “real American”. I am tired of the way that commentators all discuss the rural white opioid addicts with sympathy and kid gloves (“the world changed for these good hard working miners/factory workers/farmers, and they were simply unable to recover”) while discussing poor black communities as “lacking the initiative to pull themselves up by the bootstraps”, “endemic dysfunction”, “criminal thugs” and so on. There are communities in KY that had 30, even 40% unemployment back in the 80’s – the dysfunction and poverty there is not a result of elite Obama acolytes taking their mining jobs away. There are tons of people who are not rural white working class, and they are real Americans too. Making fun of them, calling them elitist or “other” or corrupt – how is that different than the term “deplorable”?

  157. “People feel that way about Hillary because she is constantly grilled. Trump gets a pass at every turn.”

    From whom? The New York Times? The Washington Post? CNN?

    Is it entirely inconceivable that many people are opposed to Clinton for the legitimate reason that she has proven herself, time and again, as dishonest and untrustworthy?

  158. Sad to have missed this today. Throwing this out there because….well, no good reason, probably won’t convince anyone. So You Want to Like Hillary but You Don’t Know Where to Start

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BNTzJv7cIrh2DMjwDJLoOfFE6itcjMLqtVnxGjZO9-g/htmlview?pref=2&pli=1&sle=true#gid=0

    Answers, via links to reasonably reputable sources, to all of your burning questions (including but not limited to):
    Ok. But in her career, what has Hillary DONE?
    There’s a nagging feeling of distrust I have towards Hillz. WHY?
    I heard that Hillary just does whats expedient for her political career.

  159. On the pneumonia discussion (150 comments ago) – I don’t find it alarming that someone would have passed out while standing for 90 minutes wearing Kevlar. It doesn’t really make me question their physical fitness for president.

    I suspect (based on no insider knowledge) that she went to Chelsea’s and got 2-3 liters of Normal Saline (a normal bolus for someone with pneumonia) from a friendly MD. That plus a little ibuprofen and tylenol would make her a whole new woman in 90 minutes (as demonstrated when she walked out). She could be down 5-10 pounds of fluid, due to “third spacing”. You don’t treat that by drinking a bottle of water. [An aside – it was much talked about the Dr. Atkins died at some crazy high weight – maybe 240 lbs. However, he was treated for sepsis in the ICU and likely had been given 40+ pounds of fluids over a few days -it’s common].

    When you are sick (severe flu, pneumonia, colitis), you leak fluid from blood vessels into your cellular spaces (or the third space as it is called). So, if one was building a fever, as frequently happens in the afternoon, you could become rapidly dehydrated over an hour by just standing still. You have lost a significant volume of fluid into your third space and your circulating supply is low. Suddenly, your blood pressure drops and you’re on the ground. Replace the fluid and treat with antibiotics and magically recover.

  160. Is it entirely inconceivable that many people are opposed to Clinton for the legitimate reason that she has proven herself, time and again, as dishonest and untrustworthy?

    Yes.

    What if there were no rhetorical questions?

  161. “Kate, then what is the evidence of this superb and exceptional intelligence?”

    Based on the fact that she took Calculus in high school, of course!

  162. I heard that Hillary just does whats expedient for her political career.

    And that makes her no different than at least 90% of politicians.

  163. Interesting article on history of women lawyers from 1920s – 1970s.

    http://bit.ly/2ctcTk0

    “A number of Wall Street firms hired their first women associates in the 1930s and
    1940s, but, with the exception of Soia Mentschikoff none were made partner. For
    example, Milbank Tweed hired its first woman associate in 1935 and made its first
    woman partner in 1977; Cahill Gordon hired its first woman associate in 1943 and
    made its first woman partner in 1981; Shearman & Sterling hired its first woman
    associate in 1944 and made its first woman partner in 1979. Obviously, these were
    not the same women.”

    “Ruth Bader Ginsburg, now an associate justice on the United
    States Supreme Court, graduated first in her class at Columbia in 1959 (after
    transferring from Harvard) and applied to large numbers of law firms in New York
    City, only to be rejected by every one. “At first, when the rejection notices started
    coming in, [Ginsburg] thought something might be wrong with her, but then, she said,
    ‘When I got so many rejections, I thought it couldn’t be they had no use for me-it had
    to be something else.”‘ The sense she made of this is history. And, of course, we
    all know the story of former Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor, close to the
    top of her class at Stanford Law School in 1952, who sought legal employment only
    to be offered a position as a legal secretary.”

  164. After reading the “deplorables” comments and how we measure racism, I ran across Nate Silver’s Are White Republicans More Racist Than White Democrats?.
    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/are-white-republicans-more-racist-than-white-democrats/

    One of the survey questions asked was whether respondents would “object to living in a half-black neighborhood”. I can imagine another similar question could be about whether they would object to sending their kid to a half-black public school. If someone answered yes to either of those questions, I suspect HRC would judge that person to be racist and deplorable.

  165. ” I can imagine another similar question could be about whether they would object to sending their kid to a half-black public school. If someone answered yes to either of those questions, I suspect HRC would judge that person to be racist and deplorable.”

    Her own choice of Sidwell Friends for Chelsea not withstanding.

  166. Milo, that poll suggests that people voting for Clinton and people voting for Trump are equally likely to vote. Given the historical pattern that highly educated people (who tend to be Clinton supporters) are much more likely to actually vote than less educated people, I continue to expect a wide electoral college margin for Clinton.

  167. WCE – Education is not evenly distributed, and while the Democrats do better among those with graduate degrees, they also lead among the high school dropouts. The Republicans have the middle.

    Additionally, most metrics tend to show the enthusiasm advantage to Trump right now; when polls go from registered voters to likely voters, in this cycle that adjustment has tended to favor Trump.

  168. Good point. I was surprised at the degree of “oppositeness” of the candidate trend lines for under $35k and $35-$75k income. The “regular” people I know mostly fall into the $35-$75k bucket unless they’re retired, in which case they’re part of the <$35k Trump supporters.

    I think it's the $35k-$75k people who resent the support given the <$35k working-age people because the $35k-$75k people aren't generally eligible for Medicaid, utility assistance, Section 8 housing, (much) food assistance, etc.

  169. The other interesting aspect is how much marriage plays into it and correlates with it. Everyone knows there’s a big gender gap — ignoring all other factors, Trump leads by a big margin with men, and Hillary leads by a big margin with women. But less-publicized is that Trump also leads among married women, and with a fairly comfortable margin.

    But politics aside, we also know on this blog that marriage is now highly correlated with getting people above that $35k threshold.

  170. Trump now up by 5 in LATimes, and also up by 5 according to Bloomberg.

    Hillary may have given the skeptical “I can’t stand either of them” undecided voters a solid reason to join The Deplorables.

  171. I never really trust polls that much. My best friend Trump supporter? If I had to guess, she probably won’t end up voting. She is in our home state that is considered a battleground, but isn’t really, so it doesn’t really matter. My husband often doesn’t get around to voting because of work and lack of pre-planning. Stuff like that.

    I think it will come down to the weather that day (I think I have said this before).

  172. Yeah, I probably provide the impetus, sometimes, for DW to vote, particularly in Virginia’s many off-year elections.

  173. I am going to make sure Mr. Kate votes this time. We usually vote for different candidates, but we are happily aligned this year so I will make sure he fulfills his civic responsibility. Other years I am very quiet and hoping that he forgets (which he often does!).

  174. The outcome of my state is likely known, but this will be my son’s first time to be eligible to vote, so I’m definitely making sure everyone in our house gets there.

  175. I was raised that you vote in every election, even if you think the result is already decided.

    You don’t take that right for granted.

  176. There is almost no way my state doesn’t go Clinton, but we have a heated Senate race and a number of state and county elections that I care about. I love early voting. I go on my lunch break in a building a block away well ahead of the election when there is no line.

  177. “I was raised that you vote in every election, even if you think the result is already decided.”

    every election, including the ones for county council where the incumbent is basically unopposed, including off-year primaries?

  178. Milo, I think all of our local elections occur at the same time as the house as representatives, which 9th district is always a big deal here

  179. I will early vote and encourage people (even though my state won’t go to Trump) to do so! So weather won’t be a factor! The Trump voters can stay home.
    The people I know who do not like Hilary still won’t vote Trump. Their vote goes to Johnson.

  180. MBT, no one cares. No one cares how unbelievably corrupt, dangerous, and evil he is. No one cares.

  181. RMS, i can’t make sense of the multiple years of investigations into Benghazi and other Hillary issues, the widespread commentary that Hillary actually is guilty of prosecutable crimes but is being let off under some widespread conspiracy, the multiple investigations into possible conflict of interest generated by the Clinton Foundation (including by the liberal media outlets NY Times and Washington Post) and this dismissiveness of Trump’s issues. (Dismissiveness of general public, not you personally)

  182. MBT – While there are certainly legitimate concerns in there *IF* Trump is elected, this talk about hypothetical future conflict of interest is not going to get any traction when there’s been clear evidence for a while that the Clintons have *already* been selling State Department access based on donations to their foundation.

  183. After trailing behind Clinton, Trump takes a 2-point lead in Nevada in first poll in that state following “Deplorables”

  184. Like Kate, I have come to conclusion that these people deserve Trump. All over the world, people put fascists, deplorable murderers, autocrats, etc into position of supreme power over them.

  185. the Clintons have *already* been selling State Department access based on donations to their foundation.

    You know that’s entirely false, right? Of course you do.

  186. “No one cares how unbelievably corrupt, dangerous, and evil he is. No one cares.”

    Then why is there #anybodybuttrump?

  187. Rocky – I’m not sure he’s going to win. But the race is exciting again. I think he can win, certainly. The debates are a huge factor here–he could come across as a total unqualified idiot while she’s cool and in control, or he could come across as a champion of plainspoken change while she looks like a pale and reclusive witch. Outside of the debates, we’ve been here before when Trump was supposedly finally going to stay on message, and then he started battling with the soldier’s parents.

    As for the Clinton Foundation, there definitely appears to be some conflict of interest in the pay for access, even if no favors have yet been uncovered:

    http://www.npr.org/2016/08/25/491282347/saving-lives-or-selling-access-explaining-the-clinton-foundation

  188. Former Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, who served as President George W. Bush’s top diplomat, derided Donald J. Trump as a “national disgrace” and an “international pariah” in personal email exchanges that were leaked online Tuesday.

  189. Yeah, and Powell also criticized “Hillary’s Mafia” (his words) who were trying to blame her for email crimes. He additionally explained to Sec’y Rice that he *never* told her to set up a private server and conduct all her business from there.

    So, yep, Powell’s had quite a bit to say.

  190. more from Powell:

    “Sad thing is that HRC could have killed this two years ago by merely telling everyone honestly what she had done and not tie me into it. I told her staff three times not to try that gambit. I had to throw a mini tantrum at a Hampton’s party to get their attention. She keeps tripping into these ‘character’ minefields.”

    Indeed she does.

  191. So we have: (not HRC) vs (not Trump) vs (no clue about Aleppo).

    OTOH, perhaps Johnson/Aleppo falls under the heading of “all publicity is good publicity.”

  192. More from Powell on the Clintons:

    “I would rather not have to vote for her although she is a friend I respect. A 70 year old person with a long track record, unbridled ambition, greedy, not transformational, with a husband still dicking bimbos at home.”

  193. Maybe the Russian hackers will release more of Powell’s e-mails if he ever runs for office. He sounds like my kind of guy.

  194. Milo, re: HRC tripping into character minefields – I agree that she does. But you seem to focus exclusively on her character issues. Do you recognize that Trumo has significant character issues himself? He does not have even a passing acquaintance with the truth, put hundreds of small business people out of business by refusing to pay them for work he contracted to have done, for no other reason than because he knew he could get away with it, demonstrates a bloodlust coupled with a weaker knowledge of foreign policy than this suburban Texan accountant, gleefully proclaims his plan to undue fundamental Constitutional rights as soon as he is elected, routinely denigrates people of all sorts of non-WASP stripes, says things repeatedly that demonstrate his contempt for women, and on and on. I don’t understand how you can point out her character shortcomings as if that is not a significant deficit in Trump as well.

  195. MBT – Some of your criticisms are true, and some are exaggerated:

    “routinely denigrates people of all sorts of non-WASP stripes,”

    illegal immigrants are criminals, by definition.

    “says things repeatedly that demonstrate his contempt for women”

    he made some very off-color remarks about Megyn Kelly, and they’ve made up.

    But for all of those, the Clintons are exponentially worse. In a just society, Bill Clinton would be on the sex offender registry after serving time in prison for rape and attempted rape; instead, Hillary has lied and attacked his victims to protect their mutual ambitions. That’s worse than making gross comments.

    And her obvious contempt for about a quarter of all Americans (at least) that she is comfortable expressing when she knows the cameras are rolling is worse to me than Trump’s characterizations of illegal immigrants.

    What difference does it make if Trump lies, since his lies are generally of the boastful, hyperbolic variety that are hardly even intended to be believed when Hillary is a pathological liar?

    We’ve been over this before. We’ve carved out our positions.

  196. RMS – no one does care. I have totally moved on to the acceptance stage. We should give the people what they want. I suspect that you and I will fair better under his rule than a lot of his supporters will.

  197. Powell is way too old to run. He must be pushing 80. He passed on it years ago because of his wife. He is a normal McLean boy, so I like him. Most of the politicians who live here at a little BSC.

  198. Don’t give up yet. Latest national Quinnipiac is Clinton +5, part of the poll taken before last weekend, part after.

  199. I haven’t given up. I think she still has a very good shot. I just don’t really care any more. If people want to elect a narcissist who doesn’t have a basic understanding of government or the Constitution, thinks Putin is awesome and hates women and minorities, well, who am I to say otherwise. It has made me think of my fellow countrymen as idiots, though and totally understand something like the BLM movement. And confirmed to me that so many people are just racist.

  200. “I just don’t really care any more.”

    I haven’t been able to come to a clear conclusion that either is significantly worse than the other. It’s also not clear to me that either would be any worse than Bush 43.

  201. Obama, a black man, has a much higher approval rating than do either of the white candidates. If not for that inconvenient Constitutional provision, he would probably be re-elected. So how do you conclude that so many people are just racist?

  202. “I haven’t been able to come to a clear conclusion that either is significantly worse than the other.”

    Neither have I. It’s a sad metric. Even sadder that, four years from now, it’s not clear that there will be any reasonable grownups willing to run. Unless Mitch Daniels has a change of heart.

  203. “If not for that inconvenient Constitutional provision, he would probably be re-elected.”

    Yep. I would vote for him in a second over Trump. They should do an emergency, provisional Amendment, or just put Biden in place of Hillary at this point. Use her questionable health, blood clots, multiple collapsing episodes, concussion as a way for her to save face.

    And I just don’t understand why, to attack Trump, progressives have to go after his millions of supporters and with no reliable justification, attack them for supposed bigotry. If that’s not the pot calling the kettle black… And that’s the underlying reason why, with no qualifications or particular expertise, he’s doing as well as he is.

  204. I don’t even know where to start with the notion that our country doesn’t have a huge % of racist/bigoted people because Obama has been elected 2x. There is a ton of stuff out there on this if you really care. It is pretty similar to denying that you might be racist because you have a black friend. It doesn’t matter that Obama was president. It doesn’t even matter if you voted for him or would vote again for him if given the opportunity.

  205. The ton of stuff I’ve seen are tests like we talked about before, where they are designed so that “racist” = “not progressive.”

    I don’t see how not supporting Clinton is (yet another) indicator of “racist” Americans.

  206. “I don’t even know where to start with the notion that our country doesn’t have a huge % of racist/bigoted people ”

    And how is your statement, and Hillary’s “deplorables,” not bigoted?

  207. If by bigoted you mean not tolerant of other people’s beliefs, then I am happy for you to call me a bigot. Stupid ideas should be called out as such. But the type of bigotry that we should be trying to eliminate is the type that is rooted in a power differential. That is why there is no such thing as racism against white people. It just doesn’t exist.

  208. And it isn’t the not supporting of Clinton. It is the support of Trump. Including how he beat out so many Republicans.

  209. Your statement and Hillary’s statement are bigoted because they are passing broad judgments against broad groups of people based on no understanding but their own prejudice. And of course there can be racism against whites, but in either case, these people are not in any position of power, and certainly not compared to someone living in a million dollar plus house in one of the most affluent neighborhoods in the country.

  210. White people, even poor and definitely middle class white people, always have a power that is greater than what a minority has. Do you not believe in white privilege?

  211. “That is why there is no such thing as racism against white people. It just doesn’t exist.”

    Dumbest comment I’ve read on here in a long time.

  212. White privilege exists as one factor, but it is probably less significant than Socio economic privilege. Neither is or should be a justification for bigotry.

  213. Kate, that just doesn’t make any sense according to any logical definition of racism. Saying. Doesn’t make that correct.

  214. Yeah, I’m part of the problem because I believe the Oxford dictionary over an opinion article. The people who despise and smugly dismiss tens of millions of Americans because they don’t support their choice of political candidate are not the problem at all.

  215. Oh, it is absolutely part of the problem. We never have discussions about race that are productive because we can’t ever admit there is an issue.

  216. Oh, we have productive discussions on race. But the existence of problems needs to be supported by reliable data, and often times this just is not the case, contrary to popular media narratives.

  217. Why, why, why can’t we just observe that racism has many definitions, and Webster’s isn’t God. There’s a fairly endless Wikipedia article about racism that needs work, but does at least cover some of the varying ideas that all cluster together under the heading “Racism”.

    Oh, and shove it up your anonymous ass, 4:36. If you’re going to be snotty, pick a name and use it so we can mock you appropiately.

  218. My DH has a story from his Navy days (going on 15 years ago now). He was getting his mail, when another sailor he didn’t know, who was black, got in his face and was yelling at him about his magazines. The confrontation became physical and ended with DH putting his high school wrestling skills to good use and pinning the guy. When DH finally figured out what was going on it turned out that being white + the hunting magazines his mom sent to him made him a REDNECK, which apparently made him okay to assault in the black guy’s book.

    But, full stop, there’s no way the black guy’s behavior was racist?

  219. I respectfully disagree with Kate, although I understand where she’s coming from. Yes, there can be racism against white people. But all things considered, white privilege is a much bigger problem. It’s not like there are tons of black people in positions of power who can deny me access to the avenues of wealth and influence.

  220. Rocky – I respectfully disagree that white privilege is a bigger problem than class privilege (although it often correlates.) Our society — all our lives –are far more segregated by class now than they are segregated by race. And, as we can clearly see, there are many people who don’t even acknowledge that bigotry across class lines could even be a problem as much as they see it as the natural order of things in a meritocracy.

  221. “But all things considered, white privilege is a much bigger problem. It’s not like there are tons of black people in positions of power who can deny me access to the avenues of wealth and influence.”

    And it’s not like there are tons of white people in positions of power who can and do deny ANYONE access to the “avenues of wealth and influence.” We know, but are not allowed to acknowledge, that many people in this country are poor not because they were denied “access to the avenues of wealth and privilege,” but because one or both of their parents chose not to take full responsibility for their welfare at the time of their birth. These people are white as well as black, but because some 70% of black children are born to unmarried mothers, it’s more obvious in the black population.

    The “avenues of wealth and influence,” whatever they are, are increasingly controlled by the educated meritocracy. Striving children of immigrants of all races are filling a greater percentage of the seats at public magnet schools and flagship state universities, working at tech startups, and creating their own businesses. The people left behind are the less intellectually gifted, those who didn’t finish high school, and those who face physical and mental health challenges, especially substance abuse and addiction. Lots of them are supporting Trump because they have correctly concluded that Clinton not only does not speak for them, but despises them.

  222. From the article in WCE’s link:

    “Donald Trump’s appeal, in part, is that he cracks back at progressive cultural condescension in utterly crude terms. Nativists exist, and the sky is still blue. But the overwhelming majority of these people aren’t phobic about a modernizing America. They’re fed up with the relentless, moral superciliousness of Hillary, the Obamas, progressive pundits and 19-year-old campus activists.

    Evangelicals at last week’s Values Voter Summit said they’d look past Mr. Trump’s personal résumé. This is the reason. It’s not about him.”

    Isn’t this just another version of Hope and Change? These Trump supporters want change, and hope that Trump can deliver it, because they know perfectly well that Clinton will continue and intensify the status quo.

  223. Isn’t this just another version of Hope and Change? These Trump supporters want change, and hope that Trump can deliver it, because they know perfectly well that Clinton will continue and intensify the status quo.

    This was a decent, if formulaic article on some of the Deplorables in Pennsylvania who seem to be in the “hoping for change” category.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/09/why-democrats-in-western-pennsylvania-are-voting-trump/499577/

    Clinton and Trump dead even in latest CBS/NYT poll.

  224. “Every single person who walked into Lee Supply’s training room, from the CEO down to the janitor, was a registered Democrat. And every single person pledged not only to vote for Trump and Toomey but to ask family, neighbors, and friends to do the same.”

    That is a pretty powerful observation, even if it’s a self-selected group.
    I just don’t get the sense that Clinton supporters have that much passion about her candidacy.

  225. They’re a supplier to coal companies, so it’s not all that surprising. If I had to choose one line of attack to defend Hillary against, it would be the “we’re going to put a lot of coal miners out of business” comment. In that case, she really was saying that we need an economy that can offer them good alternatives.

    The tactical mistake the Democrats have made is sacrificing a lot of political capital in West Virginia, Kentucky, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and elsewhere attacking coal, and seeing Obama’s (illogical) Clean Power Plan blocked by the Supreme Court, when they could have just sat back, declared their fondness for coal miners, and let the rock-bottom prices of fracked natural gas take their much-more-devastating toll.

    I could be misunderstanding this, but the Clean Power Plan only applied to emissions from power plants. There’s nothing saying that you can’t dig it up and ship it overseas, which is what we do, but the international demand for it continues to weaken. (There are some complicating factors; types of coal vary in their optimal applications, the dollar’s been stronger, etc.)

  226. “They’re a supplier to coal companies, so it’s not all that surprising.”

    It’s surprising to me. Both DH and I grew up and have generations of family in western PA, and they have always been Democrats to the core. But also generally apolitical. To get that many people to show up to register, and all of them supporting Trump, is fairly remarkable.

  227. Cost of College, I agree that Slate is. Too quick to cite racism. But where I have a problem with that article you linked, is I am not certain that the correlation should be between violence and blacks, rather than violence and some other common factor such as living in an urban environment, living in poverty, educational attainment, family status, substance abuse, level of religious adherence, or something else. people choose black as the driving factor because it is visible. If you had those exact same people in the exact same environment, but with a different amount of melanin, do you think the violence would disappear? I do not, so I don’t think skin pigment is the driving factor. I think it is much more complex, and that attributing the cause to race means we’ll never identify the real cause.

  228. The coal industry has been dying since the 80’s. No one is going to save, including Trump. If Trump gets elected, there is going to be huge disappointment in KY and WVa

  229. The main thing I’ve learned about racism on this blog is that views are racist regardless of whether they are based on impregnable statistics. Categorizing people by group (unless they’re gay) is considered extremely impolite.

  230. At this point, I am so depressed that I am starting to think about exit strategies. My DH could get hired in Canada pretty easily. It would be harder for me unless I went back to industry. But if Trump is elected, we need to make plan. My oldest will be draft age. And even if Trump doesn;t win, I am so disillusioned about people in this country that it may be the right move anyway. I have never felt this way before – that so many people could believe this corrupt, lying, nasty, scam artist.

  231. MBT, you might like Thomas Sowell’s book Wealth, Poverty and Politics. He discusses your hypothesis in detail, and looks at the cultural assimilation of free African Americans, Irish and Jews to support his views.

  232. And I am at the point where not only would I vote for virtually any Democrat against Trump, I think I would vote for most any Republican if that were the only choice against Trump. Well, Cruz, eeeuw, but at least he probably wouldn’t get into a nuclear fistfight with China.

  233. Scarlett, I was a voter for all of those elections. Yeh, people said stuff like that, but it was not the same at all. Not at all. And actually many of us were relieived by Bush I, who was quite sedate and sane.

  234. Reagan didn’t not lie with every breath. He didn’t scam people out of their money or say rascist things about judges or call his opponents school bully names. Most of us had policy differences with him, not basic concerns that he could be crazy.

  235. Milo, it isn’t the same. She is more hawkish than I like, but she basically continues the Republican foreigh policy tradition. Trump can’t control his mouth or his temper. He reminds me of my 10 year old ADHD’er. No impulse control. His love for Putin and hatred for China scares me.

  236. Mooshi – Your memory’s failing you. The WSJ did an article recounting all the mainstream media coverage that thought it was exceptionally risky to give Reagan access to “the button.”

  237. “Trump can’t control his mouth or his temper.”

    He’s done pretty good for the past two weeks. :)

  238. My memory is not failing me. The issues with Reagan had to do with policy. People felt he was too much of a hawk, kind of like your opinion of Hillary. No one thought he would fly off in a rage, which is everyone’s concern with Trump

  239. “He is a 10 year old bully with ADHD”

    I’ve long said that Trump is the male version of Judge Judy, with a similar accent (New Yorkers could better parse the distinctions there, to be sure).

    But my Dad, originally from similar neighborhoods, has commented that Trump and his nicknames are very reminiscent of how they behaved as schoolyard/neighborhood kids. It’s not particularly nice, nor was it ever particularly mean, but something like “Little Marco” that just flows so naturally from him is just the way it was, and saying “oh yeah, he’s a loser” was the same way. You could still be buddies and say “he’s a loser.”

    He went on to recognize how childhood is much more controlled to be very, very different today, but that’s what he recognizes in Trump’s behavior.

  240. So a 70 year old wannabe world leader who acts like a school kid from the 50’s. Great. Lovely. I’d prefer a grownup thank you

  241. “But where I have a problem with that article you linked, is I am not certain that the correlation should be between violence and blacks, rather than violence and some other common factor such as living in an urban environment, living in poverty, educational attainment, family status, substance abuse, level of religious adherence, or something else. people choose black as the driving factor because it is visible.”

    Maybe that particular poll question should not be used? We should be more careful about how we discuss this? But if a correlation does exist, poll respondents are not stating that a causation exists. This may come back to the point that part of Trump’s success has been due to the frustration with excessive political correctness. His supporters see themselves labeled as racists when they feel they are simply observing what they see as facts.

    “The main thing I’ve learned about racism on this blog is that views are racist regardless of whether they are based on impregnable statistics.”

    I’ve probably said too much on this topic, so I’ll stop here. I really should not have brought it up in the first place. I apologize.

  242. Moosh –

    Steven Hayward, author of “The Age of Reagan,” recalls the rhetoric:

    Democratic Rep. William Clay of Missouri charged that Reagan was “trying to replace the Bill of Rights with fascist precepts lifted verbatim from Mein Kampf.” The Los Angeles Times cartoonist Paul Conrad drew a panel depicting Reagan plotting a fascist putsch in a darkened Munich beer hall. Harry Stein (later a conservative convert) wrote in Esquire that the voters who supported Reagan were like the “good Germans” in “Hitler’s Germany.”…John Roth, a Holocaust scholar at Claremont College, wrote: “I could not help remembering how 40 years ago economic turmoil had conspired with Nazi nationalism and militarism—all intensified by Germany’s defeat in World War I​—to send the world reeling into catastrophe. . . . It is not entirely mistaken to contemplate our postelection state with fear and trembling.”

  243. If Trump is the bully, Clinton is the bossy teacher’s pet. Or the bossy teacher. Neither is particularly appealing, really.

  244. CoC don’t apologize – I like the fact that we can have a polite discussion on it here, because I really do want to learn more. I will look for the book WCE recommends. I agree that that question was loaded. I would like to see the results of the same question posed as “people who live in low-income, urban areas” rather than blacks. and WCE, I didn’t necessarily consider the statistics to be impregnable. If the driver of violent crime is, for example, low-income urban neighborhoods with unemployment rates >xx%, and those neighborhoods are made up of 60% blacks, then I would expect the rate of violent crime to be higher among blacks. My black colleagues, friends, and neighbors do not have a higher rate of violence than any other ethnic group I am around. The only two murderers I know personally, both domestic violence, were white male executives or management with upper 5% incomes. I will look for Sowell’s book.

  245. MBT, I’ve mentioned that Black/African American kindergartens in the local university school district have (at least some years) higher incoming test scores than the white and Asian populations. I hope that people only use age, sex and race as crude proxies when they’re broken down along the freeway.

  246. It’s been said that the best negative campaign ads this cycle are simply showing the opponent speaking.

    Last night I was reading some of the comments section in a NYT article about the election, and one commenter very entertainingly wrote about how he was recently in an appliance store* shopping for TVs when a Hillary ad came on the broadcast feed displayed on all the screens. Her ad consisted of Trump saying that he was going to deport illegal immigrants and that he knew more about ISIS than the generals. This commenter then looked at the other customers in the store, and they, either not realizing or not caring that it was a Hillary ad, were nodding in agreement and making comments that “Trump has it figured out, he has the right answers.”

    *When I see TV displays at places like Best Buy, they have an in-store feed of carefully selected high-definition images, which made me just a little bit skeptical of this account. But I suppose it’s possible that at a smaller, independent retailer that mainly sells appliances, they could just be running a normal broadcast.

  247. Yeah, she kind of did. I don’t understand why they never learn to refrain from criticizing the people on the other side. Obama did it too. Criticize the candidate, not the supporters.

  248. I’m not going to read through all 345 comments here.
    I do find Trump’s reaction to Clinton’s “basket of deplorables” to be as disingenuous as most of the other things he’s said, and his followers responses generally to be hilarious, given how for such a long time they made such a big deal about being anti-pc because they thought people shouldn’t be so sensitive. But I suspect most of them don’t see the irony/double standard.

    Scarlett and CoC, you might be interested in the research being done on transgeneratonal trauma.

  249. Recent Washington Post articles are entertaining in their increasingly desperate “But Trump could actually win!” tone.

  250. He will win. I’m like Kate — I’ve gone through denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and now I’m into acceptance. Well…arguably I’m hovering between depression and acceptance. But it was Hillary’s to lose, and she’s actively losing it.

  251. I’m starting to think it is possible that Trump might win. But, I’m comforting myself with the thought that the Establishment of both parties so horrified by him that he won’t be able to get anything done.

  252. It just happens to be my favorite musical of all time. I wonder if they are paying to use it, or if they’ll just deal with that later.

    I don’t think the race is over just yet, but if she collapses again on camera, then she’s probably toast.

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