How do our young teens spend their summers?

by Denver Dad

In a recent thread, I talked about our issues finding a suitable “camp” or
other activity for the summer for 14-year-old DD. Some people commented
that they don’t understand why a teenager needs to go to camp.

So I’ll ask the question: what are your young teenagers doing for the
summer, or if you have older kids, what did they do when they were in the
13 to 15 range? I’m particularly interested in replies from families
where both parents work outside the home so the kids can’t get to/from
activities that are less than a full day.

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160 thoughts on “How do our young teens spend their summers?

  1. For 12-15, we do a couple of camps, mainly around boy scout activities (1 month). We also travel during the summer (2 weeks). The boys spend time with my parents (2 weeks), and have summer homework and chores (ongoing). They usually have to read a few books and do a report or so. They have friends in the neighborhood that they can hang out with. I also don’t mind them relaxing, playing video games, and sleeping in.

    For 16-18, the camps disappear and are replaced by work/internships. The rest stays the same. I actively encourage the kids at this age to relax, as school is so stressful/draining. The summer homework requirement for IB/AP really ramps up between Junior and Senior year, and I expect a full month to be spent on homework.

  2. My kids are too young for this to be an issue right now. However, I have already planted the idea in my oldest DD’s head that being a counselor in training at the Y camps is a great summer opportunity when you are older.

  3. This summer, 16 year old DD will be taking care of 10 year old DS (we will pay her). DD will also be studying for the PSATs and working on her extended essay (a requirement of the International Baccalaureate program she’s doing). And also sleeping in, hanging out with friends and hopefully getting some much needed downtime.

    Previous summers, we had a college student who took care of DS and drove DD to her various activities. It was more expensive than sending the kids to day camps – but DS hates the idea of day camps. And I like the kids to get to have the sort of summer I had when I was a kid – lots of time to just hang out. The school year is so busy for them and for us, I like them to get some downtime.

  4. Houston – DD is in the first year of IB – is your son also a first year IB student?

  5. We did find a camp for them finally. And they will still have time to just hang out. With our trips and such, there are several weeks where they’ll have 2-3 days by themselves. They’ll only be in camp for 6 weeks.

  6. We have a local day camp that takes kids through the summer before 9th grade as campers. Then they can apply to be counselors in training usually takes all of 9th summer and sometimes part of 10th summer before they are eligible to be paid. Once in middle school, they pick their daily scheudle – swimming, ropes course, rock wall up and zipline down, paint ball, archery, games – vary – soccer, basketball, shuffleboard, gagaball, or some made up game, horse back riding is extra, but other offerings based on the week and weather. For example, they had water balloon fights one week where it was 100 plus every day to help keep the kids cool. It is full day.

    We did scout resident camp and/or troop travel trip, usually one week, but sometimes longer. Vacation one to two weeks and one week I would take off, but schedule EVERY appointment – dentist, doctors, eye check, podiatrist, blood work, etc. for me and both DDs.

    In middle school, both have sometimes gone to a Duke TIP camp, which is 3 weeks away from home. Also, at 12, we felt like they could be home alone, but no non-family members in the house unless there was special permission. At times we did a few half day camps and either one parent would take and the other pick up during lunch hour or we’d have known other campers and would arrange carpools.

    Specifically this summer – My DD who will be a Junior next year has 10 days with a school trip to Spain, has a GS award she needs to spend time on, needs to work on compiling her HS resume, has a targeted area to brush up on for the PSAT, will have AP homework over the summer, will visit a friend in another city and/or have friend stay with us at least1 week, taking a music lesson once a week, and is thinking about a part-time job.

    My DD who will be a freshman has marching band starting about 3 weeks before school starts, 2 weeks of 8-5 and one week of evenings, has a GS trip of 8 days, has freshman orientation in June (2 half days), might go to basketball camp, plus work on her GS award.

  7. Seattle: DS is a Junior, and an IB student. IB is much more competitive than AP in our high school. There are parts of the program that I like, and parts that I’m not that keen about.

  8. Our kids were CIT’s at town rec camps and our church’s VBS. They usually chose the 1/2 day program (with the 4 and 5 year olds) at the rec camp so that their afternoons were free. They’d also go to sleepaway camp 1-2 weeks and we’d usually do a family vacation for a week. At 15 they started lifeguarding at our neighborhood lake.

    Fortunately, most of the in-town activities were an easy bike ride so they could get themselves to wherever they needed/wanted to be. Oldest DS was embarrassed to ride his bike, so he did a lot of walking. DH has a somewhat flexible schedule, so he could usually be around if needed. I also pitched in, but it was a much longer drive for me than for him.

  9. We are in the same situation as DD, which makes summer very stressful for me — I am used to the relative ease of daycare being open 7-6 every day, so navigating camp bus drop-offs and pickups and different schedules for different weeks (and sometimes for the different kids) adds a level of ambient dread that I will get it wrong. Our stalwart is a Jewish day camp that lets the kids run around outside all day (I swear they sleep and eat VERY well and grow like 2″ every summer), and which offers a bus pickup/dropoff the next county over; DD is now a CIT and will be eligible to be a counselor summer after this one. We also usually send them to my dad’s for 2 weeks (one week at his place, one week at a Y sleep away camp with cousins), and then we have a local Y sleep away camp that is open that last week after day camp ends and school starts; one year we hired a college kid to cover that week. Throw in some beach trips and vacation, and we’re good. It is frustrating not to be able to send them to the specialty camps they are interested in, but not only do those camps have unworkable start/stop times for working parents, they also don’t even advertise dates until a month or two after the regular camps fill up, and since we both work, we just can’t afford to wait or guess.

    This year is different because DD has a 3 week band trip, and we are taking our big anniversary/birthday trip as well, plus DD is having foot surgery after we get back. So we probably only have a month of “regular” summer camp stuff — we even had to skip the camp at my dad’s this summer, which makes me sad (though he will be joining us for a week on our big trip, so better scenery).

  10. We hired someone to drive until the summer before high school. Kids did a combination of swim and other sports teams, enrichment day camps and overnight camps.
    Starting the summer before high school, they had summer running every morning. We had carpools for that and other activities, coupled with a few weeks of overnight camp. So glad when carpooling days were behind me.

  11. My kids are a bit younger but due to the neighborhood emptying out in the summer, I do about 5 weeks of camp.
    The camp weeks are at the Y, which works well for drop/off pick up, both location wise and time wise. Their offerings change enough from year to year where my kids can swim, cook, do movie making, video game design and even take day trips to the lakes or mountains. There was one robotics camp I wanted DS to take but it was too far. This year DS will take band camp and DD dance camp separate from the Y. I will work from home for about two weeks. This year a new robotics camp just started near us, I have kept that in mind for next year. My kids were extremely bored at home without neighbor friends and though the grandparents are around, it wasn’t a fun way to spend the summer.

  12. For people who had nannies when kids were young, when did you give up the nanny? I can envision us keeping ours for a long time just for all the ferrying around, particularly in the summer.

  13. I know about a few more fun camps from other parents but the drop/off – pick/up points for the camp bus, doesn’t work for me. I have to say to myself that whatever I have signed my kids up for is good enough and the Y does a great job of managing kids, organizing activities and moving them between morning and afternoon sessions. Both my kids want to be camp counselers when the time comes.

  14. Speaking of camps – both my kids had enough of the very high climbing tower (to be climbed in the heat of a southern summer) and forbade me from signing them up for any camp that included “climbing tower”.

  15. Summer is a little tough here, because I work from home. So even though mine are old enough to occasionally stay home, it’s hard for me to have them in the house and still be productive at work.

    I’m lucky this summer – they are still both young enough to have a fair amount of camps available to them. I try to do as many 9-3 camps as I can, which is enough time to get them out of the house and active, but still gives them tons of time in the afternoon/evening to be lazy. Even 9-12, if it’s a sport camp, wears them out enough that they’ll leave me in peace in the afternoons. But having them home with me all day doesn’t work too well.

  16. L – We stopped using a nanny when the kids went to pre-K. We use afterschool activities and day long camps in the summer (and trips to visit family) to cover. This year (3rd grade), we hired a sitter for afterschool 3 days a week and love it. They still attend afterschool activities the other 2 days. Most camps are accessible by public transportation or walking, so no car pool concerns for us. Afterschool programs are at their school.

  17. Not working outside the home when kids were this age, but our swim/tennis club was basically next door, so the kids were busy with swim team in the morning, tennis and fun swimming in the afternoon, and then coaching or working at the front desk. Other neighborhood families with two working parents were able to keep the kids busy for a good part of the day without having to hire someone to drive them around.
    This is something I might not have taken into account when househunting with small children, but the small children quickly grow into bigger children, and having a neighborhood swim club within easy walking distance can be a definite plus. Northern Virginia has lots of these clubs, especially inside the Beltway, and I took them for granted until we moved away. They were a very cheap and user-friendly solution to the summer for us.

  18. My oldest is going to sleep away camp for the first time this summer and I just looked and the camp goes up to age 16. The 14 year old across the street goes to sleep away camp for a month so it will be interesting to see how DD likes it and if she will want to go for longer next summer.

    I’m going to be stopping work in less than two months and plan on spending at least July on Cape Cod every summer. Atlanta is just empty in the summer. Everyone has decamped to somewhere with nicer weather or the kids are at sleep away camp, so I can imagine it being lonely for older kids who are here and just doing day camps.

    When I was a kid I worked starting at 12 most days (2 years for a family member under the table before I could legally get a job) and there were definitely a few times my parents weren’t around to drive me so I had to ride my bike.

  19. Starting at 12 I babysat and went to three weeks of the Johns Hopkins program, and at 13 was a CIT for a group of kindergarteners (which ensured I did not go into teaching).

    After that I was resume building for college – volunteer work – and working.

  20. Many of my kids’ friends are first generation immigrants and spend the summers overseas with extended family. Some stay in town, but I wish there were more.

  21. I also ask because I really relished the lazy summers I got as a kid – I did theatre camp and choir camp every year starting at 12, but that was only a few weeks out of the summer and I loved the other weeks when I could read like 30 books a week, etc., so I want to make sure our kids have time to be lazy. :)

  22. I can’t imagine that we will stop having an au pair until at least the youngest is in high school. She is invaluable for managing logistics. The downside of that is that I feel like I have already paid for childcare all summer and in reluctant to spend the extra three or $400 per week, per child for various enrichment activities. We are many years away from the young teen dilemma, but I am hopeful that my children will be counselors in training at summer camp or some such activity that blends responsibility with quality outdoor fun.

  23. I’m interested to see what people do. There are camp options but the good ones are expensive for a family our size and inconvenient logistically so we’ll limit those. The bad ones would teach them things I don’t want them to learn. I expect we’ll hire a early college age sitter for parts of the next few summers and working part-time, I can be pretty flexible. I haven’t figured out how/if summer will affect Baby WCE’s childcare once she’s preschool age. (Right now, I have to keep my infant slot.)

    Mr WCE and I haven’t discussed when we’ll be OK letting them ride bikes to friends’ houses or to the pool. Not this summer, in any case.

  24. L – think about what you mean by your kids being lazy. You might care more if being lazy meant 10 hours a day of minecraft and youtube videos instead of reading books.

  25. We do camps. My criteria for camps is that they all need to be in the same location more or less at the same time, or else at a place that they can walk to.
    This year:
    16 year old is doing CIT at the same tech camp that he has attended as a camper for the last couple of years. He will be helping kids who are learning to program and other assorted CIT things. This is at a university campus where my other two kids also do other camp programs.He will then do a couple of weeks of chamber music camp, at a location he can walk to.

    The 13 year old is doing two weeks of architecture camp for teens at the university campus, and then two weeks of the tech camp that his older brother is at and then 2 weeks of chamber music camp (they can walk together)

    The 8 year old is doing weeks here and there of horseback riding and soccer, also at the university campus. She will also do two weeks of filmaking for kids, again at the university, and a week of that same tech camp. Programming, here she comes! Actually, I think she will be doing some digital media thing. She also has a week of girls STEM activities, at a school that is really close to us

    The nice thing about the tech camp is that a lot of the kids are boarders, so my kids can stay really late, eat dinner there, and then get shuttled home by my DH after he finishes work, at 7.

  26. If your child has an IEP and social issues, camps are a lot more challenging. Not that school is easy, but teachers/staff tend to have better idea of the child than short-term camps. Also, fellow campers are not necessarily schooled in tolerance, acceptance of quirky kids, etc. and it can be miserable for the one who does not readily fit in.

    Hiring college student almost FT to do activities and take to/from/ keep eye on at swimming pool, other places is about the only thing that works.

    Two weeks of vacation with family and a couple of known 1/2 day sports camps at a local church will round out the summer.

    This will be the set-up for most of the summers ds lives with us, based on advice from other parents, therapist, etc.

  27. “I also ask because I really relished the lazy summers I got as a kid.”

    See, I was the same way. I spent my 20s and 30s idealizing that vision of the perfect lazy summer for my kids, where we could all swim and nap in a hammock and do whatever we want, or nothing at all. (Which, of course, leads directly to “I’m a total failure as a parent” when you are working a paying job that expects you to show up daily).

    And then I had little-Ms.-Uber-Extrovert, Ms. Everything AllTheTime, Ms. personification of Why Summer Camp Exists. She is SO much happier being surrounded by a bunch of kids in organized activities — she finally gets all the stimulation she needs, with the added bonus that she wears herself out, not me. When we started her at the Jewish day camp at @ 6, and she fell asleep in her dinner after the first day, it was a “huzzah!” moment.

    So, basically, YMMV. Depends on your kid.

  28. My oldest, rising junior, will be mainly doing some online classes, one or two high school via e-school and one college via Oregon State Online. He’ll also have some AP homework. And I want to get him signed up for drivers’ ed in the later part of the summer.

    My middle one, rising freshman, was originally planning to volunteer for the Humane Society, but then realized that their minimum age is actually 15, not 14, so she can’t. (And at that, they have about the lowest minimum age for an unaccompanied volunteer that I’ve seen. Most places are 18. Probably it makes things easier for the insurance or something, but they are kissing off the opportunity to get young people interested and involved in their cause, since by the time you’re 18 you’d probably rather just get a job.) Anyway, her plan B is to paint her room, bake a lot, watch some Great Courses videos, take trombone lessons, and also go to a week or two of sleepaway camp.

    My youngest, rising 7th grade, is planning a 2-3 week trip to visit the away grandparents, and other than that is probably hoping for the minecraft and youtube itinerary mentioned above, but I’ll be fighting him to get him to do some academic stuff. He did also want to learn to swordfight.

  29. It is frustrating not to be able to send them to the specialty camps they are interested in,

    And I’m frustrated because my kids aren’t interested in any specialty camps. I look at the list of camps around here and wish I could go to some of them, and the kids have zero interest in them.

    You might care more if being lazy meant 10 hours a day of minecraft and youtube videos instead of reading books.

    Minecraft is too totebaggy. Substitute Call of Duty or Madden. And add watching the Simpsons to the youtube videos.

  30. 14-15 year olds can work, but have to first find an employer willing to hire, then get a work permit application filled out and have the prospective employer sign off on it, then wait for the actual permit to be issued before they can start. So it’s not the most realistic alternative for a job-hunter. 16-17 year olds can get the work permit without a pending job and go hunting with permit in hand, but it’s still not easy because a lot of the retail chains seem to have an 18-or-over-only hiring policy.

  31. When I look at the camps my kids are attending, I find myself wishing I could do them for my summer!!! I guess that is what people do when they are retired.

  32. This is fourth summer of sleepaway camp for DD. It’s seven weeks so the rest of the time is spent catching up at local pool with local friends. We go away every year as a family at end of Aug. I’m still hoping to make it to DD and RMS home to visit my friend and do some sight seeing.

    It is very common for most of the kids in our town to be in day camp or sleepaway until 14ish. As they finish MS, then kids go in different directions. Some kids still go to sleepaway and eventually become waiters and counselors. Other kids go on teen tours. Lots of kids start to stick around because sports practice for HS sports will start in the summer. Several HS kids start to attend the college programs for teens for 2, 4 or 6 weeks.

  33. HM – I noticed that re: the Humane Society! Looked up all the chapters near us (because #1 kept asking for a dog and I figured volunteering was a good way to get a pet fix) and they will only take adults (over 18) as volunteers.

  34. L, yeah, and they’ll tell you, “Oh, if *you* want to become a volunteer, we’re happy to take her as well, as long as she’s accompanied by you at all times!” Yeah, no, I’m not the one who was excited about hosing out dog kennels and scooping poop.

  35. Send them over to my house. That age is perfect for helping to wrangle small children, especially at the pool.

  36. “Minecraft is too totebaggy.”

    ha! That is funny. I don’t picture their class mates as coming from totebaggy families (but I could be wrong.) Mine are too young for Madden and Call of Duty, and really I’m hoping to avoid those altogether.

    There are so many camps here I would love to do now, if they’d let me, or would have loved as a kid, that my kids have zero interest in. The lure of the iPad is too strong.

    Seriously, I’m thinking about a no electronics (other than TV? not YouTube?) policy for certain days/weeks. maybe that could be a topic of a future post?

    One week long camp they’re attending is coding/computer related. Another is based on Percy Jackson books, otherwise the kids are with family or our sitter.

  37. Do you guys coordinate day camp schedules with other families? This spring I had a heck of a time trying to get my oldest DD’s friends to go with her to camps. They fill up so quickly too. I got tired of waiting for them to respond, plus I wanted to save some money by signing up during a particular week in March, that I went ahead and booked without hearing back. Last week one mom texted me to ask what weeks we wanted to go, and then texted back later to tell me the camps were already booked solid. So, my DD will be headed off to several week long camps without knowing anyone else. I know she’ll be fine, but she was pretty upset that she wasn’t going to be with her friends.

  38. Lemon – I start coordinating with family in February so I can book camps by end of February/ early March. My family thinks I’m nuts, but camps really fill up fast!

    We’re lucky in that mine (so far) always want to go to the same camps, so always have each other. I’ve found it a rare event when I can coordinate with their friends’ parents.

  39. We can do Totebag Summer Camp — rent a week of some lakeside cluster of cabins where we can all make potholders and lanyards, do archery and canoeing, and on the last night have a talent show.

  40. During the summer, I envy the neighbor ladies who are off to their parents houses for weeks at a time. For my kids though, I did not have such a long summer break from school nor did I have opportunities to do such fun things – so I don’t feel like a bad parent.
    I see now, in the home country, places offering younger kids arts & crafts camps, so things are certainly changing since my day.

  41. “Hiring college student almost FT to do activities and take to/from/ keep eye on at swimming pool, other places is about the only thing that works.”

    That is not necessarily a bad option, especially if your college student-kid pair really hits it off. But is it more expensive overall than a series of full-day camps?

    I just want to vent for one minute about DH’s siblings who, despite the fact that 80 yo MIL lives alone in a three story house on a nonwalkable busy street and was diagnosed by one neurologist with early-stage Alzheimer’s, chose NOT to file the paperwork to put her name on the 6 month waiting list at a very nice affordable retirement facility five miles away and RUN BY CATHOLIC NUNS because the second neurologist said she was fine. (We live two states away, I visited the nuns and got the paperwork, but could not file it for her because I don’t have access to all of the documents they require. Those documents are in the hands of the local siblings.)

    MIL fell two weeks ago, had extensive shoulder surgery, is in a rehab facility where the staff told the family that she can’t go home without home care, and she has now decided that a retirement facility sounds pretty good. Now the local siblings are all scrambling to find a place and DH is distressed because they didn’t listen to him (me) six months ago and now his mom, who was already mentally and physically drained, is even more so.

    For the life of me, I cannot understand why rational people cannot perceive that elderly people tend to get frailer as they age and cannot expect to remain indefinitely in the house they bought 50 years ago.

    That’s all.

  42. The only speciality camp, my kids said no to was golf. I was prepared to spend the money and send them to a local country club but they didn’t want to go. The know the basics of golf from the Y camp but weren’t interested in a couple of weeks of golf.

  43. I don’t idealize lazy summers at all. I used to be bored out of ,my skill in the summer. I mainly read lots of books and took swim lessons at the Y. We would do one week of day camp just to get us out of my mother’s hair. The summer after 7th grade, I took a typing class (!) just to have something to do. I would have killed for architecture camp and STEM camp, but those things did not exist in my day (and based on my hatred of day camp activities, I would have hated sleepaway camp had it existed in my neck of the woods)

  44. “Send them over to my house. That age is perfect for helping to wrangle small children, especially at the pool.”

    We have talked about sending DD to Houston for the past couple of summers to help my SIL with her kids for a few weeks. The band trip scotched that this year, unfortunately — I thought it would be an awesome combo of vacation/work (my SIL is *much* more structured/regimented than I am, so DD would either adore her time there or come back home appreciating me more than ever, which is a win in either case). Maybe next year.

    And in a happy day, DD has already exceeded her savings target for lunches and spending money this summer on that band trip — my little spendthrift has done a pretty awesome job not blowing through her $80/mo. paychecks and $25/mo. “savings” part of the allowance, and the bake sale and a recent trip to Coinstar put it over the top. She was really stunned to see how much that all added up to over @ 7 mos. — let’s hope that lesson sticks!

  45. My oldest is working at the pool, working on the ranch, going to college orientation and playing a sport. The middle one (14, rising junior) is working at the pool, working on the ranch, doing
    PSAT/SAT prep, volleyball practice, AP summer homework. The youngest (13, rising 8th grader) is doing lifeguard training, starting to teach swim lessons, working on the ranch, reading books.

    I assume there will be a significant amount of netflix, utube and minecraft going on.

    WCE, what about 4-H camp for your boys? I would imagine there would be one around you, however, you would be a risk of being roped in to being a leader.

  46. “For the life of me, I cannot understand why rational people cannot perceive that elderly people tend to get frailer as they age and cannot expect to remain indefinitely in the house they bought 50 years ago.”

    Because no one is remotely rational when his mother is failing.

    Sorry you’re having to deal with this. Ugh.

  47. Cordelia, I think the 4H programs require more land than we have- we have a half acre yard. We are doing Cub Scout camp, a week of VBS and DS1 is eligible for a week of overnight church camp. He has never slept away from us and isn’t sure if he’s ready for that yet. Since I still have to have a sitter for the twins, he can wait till the church deadline to decide.

    I also should figure out something for swimming lessons and rope the sitter into managing that. I despise going to swimming lessons.

  48. “The middle one (14, rising junior) is working at the pool, working on the ranch, doing PSAT/SAT prep, volleyball practice, AP summer homework. The youngest (13, rising 8th grader)”

    Isn’t 14 awfully young for a rising junior? Especially when there’s a sib one year younger chronologically, but 3 years behind in school? Was the middle one just way too smart to be in the same grade as kids the same age?

  49. A friend recommended this book when I was dealing with an episode of my mother’s health problems. One line that struck me was something to the effect that, “We want autonomy for ourselves and safety for our loved ones.”

    Being Mortal: Medicine and What Matters in the End Kindle Edition
    by Atul Gawande (Author)

    Everyone knows that someday there parents will have to move to some sort of care facility. It is just hard to forecast when someday will occur.

    And,what LofB said.

  50. I don’t idealize lazy summers at all. I used to be bored out of ,my skill in the summer.

    That’s my recollection as well. Nothing wrong with some lazy days here and there, but 10 weeks is awful.

  51. Once again, I am the oddball in this crowd whose kids go to summer school.

    The kids go to a totebaggy school, and many of their classmates also go to summer school, so I don’t think I should be docked totebag points. I think it is more a reflection of the regional differences between totebaggers.

    DS has a friend who moved here from the continent in middle school, and whose parents grew up on the continent. She goes to sleepaway camp every summer ‘because that’s what everybody does’ where she used to live. She’s the only one in their circle of friends who’s ever gone to sleepaway camp.

    Actually, only DD will be a summer school student, as she has been every summer since preschool. DS will be going to summer school, but he will be considered part of the faculty– he will be a TA in a science class, and during summer school the TAs are considered part of the SS faculty, and get to eat in the faculty cafeteria and park in faculty parking.

    I’m hoping DS gets to TA biology, as that would help prepare him for AP Bio next year.

  52. “Was the middle one just way too smart to be in the same grade as kids the same age?”

    Yes!

    Plus, she is tall for her age. She had no friends in her original grade and was a troublemaker when she wasn’t being bullied. We moved her because we figured since we couldn’t fix the social problems, that might at least fix the academic ones.

    When she is in a group with her agemates, the difference is striking. She clearly doesn’t belong. When she is in her grademates, she blends in just fine. She is also a varsity athlete and a class officer. She has a group of four friendies that do everything together. Of all of DH and my parenting decisions, this is the one that was unambiguously the right one.

    The younger one is 22 month younger, as if it matters. When she changes grades, we had extensive conversations with all the kids why she was changing grades, and practices conversations that they could have if people questioned them about her changing grades.

  53. “the other weeks when I could read like 30 books a week”

    That reminds me of my summers as a kid. I’ve written here before about how my mom used to set limits of one trip per day to the library, and 5 books borrowed per trip, and how that led me and my sibs to read the books the others had borrowed.

  54. Finn,

    Don’t your kids get tired of school? Mine are so done right now that we are having discussions every morning about how yes, they have to go to school.

  55. “WCE, what about 4-H camp for your boys? I would imagine there would be one around you, however, you would be a risk of being roped in to being a leader.”

    I was imagining that the roping risk would be literal.

  56. “he will be a TA in a science class, and during summer school the TAs are considered part of the SS faculty, and get to eat in the faculty cafeteria”

    That’s supposed to be a reward?

    All this to prepare for AP Bio? I lifeguarded the summer before senior year, and I did fine in AP Bio.

  57. Both my kids like younger kids, so wrangling little ones in the pool would be fine with them. They also love those fake camp counseler names so one day they can be Slam Dawg or Summer Butterfly.

  58. Nothing wrong with some lazy days here and there, but 10 weeks is awful.

    I recall that you mentioned school wasn’t an altogether pleasant experience, so I’m surprised you didn’t find the summer to be more of a relief.

    Milo, I believe that the pilot thinks he saw that. Although, he was most likely mistaken.

  59. Rhett, I was happy to be out of school, but I was bored out of my skull for several summers.

  60. I spent one summer doing nothing because I was diagnosed with mono in June of sophomore yearn HS. I thought my mother was going to flip because she doesn’t believe in just hanging out for the summer. We lived in one of the boros and most kids went to day camp or sleep away camp. Sleepaway camps were actually 8 weeks when I was a kid, and the same camps are now 6 or 7 weeks.

    I was supposed to volunteer as a candy striper in a hospital that summer, but I wasn’t allowed since I had mono. By the time July rolled around, my tests showed that I had mono, but I was feeling well enough to walk to the pool everyday and just work on my tan. The sun wasn’t yet known to be as dangerous as it is now, so I would sit out all day to work on my tan. A few friends were home, and it was fun for about two weeks. I got really bored because most of my friends were on a teen tour, at specialty camps or working.

  61. My kids (rising 9th and 6th) will go to camp for 7 weeks beginning in June. It will be the 5th and 6th year for them and they love it although I think I will have to work longer than planned to cover the cost over the years. It is great as it is very rustic and has no electricity so no screens for the duration. They usually do swim team in June but are resisting this year. I am fine with it as I find swim team exhausting. We have a girl heading to med school as our summer sitter. She was our sitter last year and we all love her. Very fun, responsible, and empties the dishwasher!

    I loved summer when I was a kid. Lots of library time, hanging out until the streetlights came on, and working at jobs with friends. When we lived in HI, I went to summer school (buffnblue Finn?). I took chemistry which was 6 weeks of hell but then it was done. Most of my friends went to SS also so it was fine.

  62. Scarlett, that stinks. I hope she is feeling better soon, and that they are still able to find an opening in a retirement place that is a good fit.

    I think elder care is so stressful. for so many reasons.

  63. ” I despise going to swimming lessons.”

    This comment brought back mostly unpleasant memories of countless hours of sitting by the pool, soccer field, tennis court, music room, dance studio, Kumon, etc. waiting for my kids. And I don’t know what was worse, waiting by myself or with another kid while he did his homework. Sometimes I felt a bit shut out from the other mom cliques, and sometimes I had friendly conversations with them. All in all, I’m glad those days are over.

    My young teens never wanted to be CITs even though I tried to encourage that. Their summers were usually a combination of short (1-2 week) specialty camps, limited volunteer work, lessons, projects imposed by mom, and family vacations. Even though I had quit working by that time, I tried to find things they could get to on their own or that were not too far away. They still had plenty of down time, and if I didn’t organize things for them they would have spent lots of time in front of the TV or similar. When I was that age I spent time at the local pool, hung out with friends, watched TV, and read. I didn’t start working until I was 16.

    Both volunteer jobs and paid jobs were not easy to find. A hospital was the only relatively local place I found that accepted 14 yo volunteers, so one of my kids spent two summers there. The kids I know who got paid jobs before age 16 usually worked for the family business, or for family friends.

  64. “Don’t your kids get tired of school?”

    Yes, I think DS especially is looking forward to a bit of a break after next week, when he’ll be done with AP exams and SAT subject tests, but will still have a couple of non-AP classes. But summer will be a break for him, since as a TA he won’t have any homework.

    Except for a couple of summers (rising 9th and 10th grade), summer school classes haven’t been like regular classes, and the kids have looked at summer school as fun. As long as they’ve done well during the school year, we’ve let the kids pick the classes they take, and they’ve taken classes like cooking,, sewing, and Greek mythology through the lens of Percy Jackson. The summer classes are, for the most part, taught at a leisurely pace, without any homework.

    The kids also enjoy SS because so many of their friends also go to SS, and the leisurely pace of the classes means they have more time to socialize than during the regular school year.

  65. Milo, the main reward DS gets for being a TA is the paychecks. The access to faculty dining and parking during the summer (but not during the regular school year) and prepping for AP Bio are ancillary benefits.

  66. “The summer after 7th grade, I took a typing class (!) just to have something to do.”

    I took typing the summer after 8th grade, along with a lot of my classmates. In hindsight, I’m very glad I took it, as I learned a skill I use on a daily basis.

  67. I forgot to mention, another benefit of being a TA is getting to know the faculty, and having them get to know DS. I’m sure DS will ask at least one of them to write LOR for him for his college applications.

  68. The two summer classes I took in the home country were public speaking and painting on foil. I enjoyed both tremendously. These were things I found on my own and for the public speaking class, I had to travel from my home in the suburbs into the center of the city. My friends weren’t interested and when I came across advertisements in the newspapers I called, enrolled and attended.

  69. “My young teens never wanted to be CITs”

    DD doesn’t particularly want to be a CIT. But she wants to be a counselor and get paid, and she’s willing to suck it up to get there. And I’m happy to send her, as it costs me a LOT less. :-)

  70. I think summer school is a great option but we don’t have that here. I wish we did – if my oldest could have taken health or PE in the summer like I did, he would have had a lunch period this year. If he could have knocked social studies out in the summer, he could have taken orchestra. I took summer school 2 summers, after 9th and after 10th, and it was really useful

  71. CoC said “This comment brought back mostly unpleasant memories of countless hours of sitting by the pool, soccer field, tennis court, music room, dance studio, Kumon, etc. waiting for my kids.”

    That is so funny! That is an aspect of momhood I thought I would despise, but ended up loving. Why? Because it gave me downtime. I could read a book or chat with the moms – I got a lot of good school gossip by chatting with moms waiting to pick up a kid from afterschool club

  72. Scarlett, I’m sorry for your MIL’s situation. Must be frustrating.

  73. I hate swimming lessons right now because the boys screw around in the men’s locker room and the family change rooms have long lines. Waiting isn’t reading time because I’m caring for Baby WCE.

  74. As a teen, I sensed that those summers when I took classes I wanted, would be the few times I would be able to do so when it was not an academic or job requirement. I was glad, I did. I am thinking of my kids and their selection of electives, they are academic classes but have the potential to be fun and move them out of their comfort zone.

  75. “if my oldest could have taken health or PE in the summer like I did, he would have had a lunch period this year.”

    I’m sorry, but there is something fundamentally wrong with a school system that creates this sort of schedule.

  76. I hate swim lessons too, especially since the older two can’t take them at the same time (best I could do is one right after the other). And the first two weekends I had to take all three by myself so I made DH do the same last weekend and I had a lovely two hours to myself. I decided it’s worth it to have that two hours to myself every other week and DH and I should just switch off on the Saturday morning swim lessons.

    I loved summers as a kid. We had a friend of my mom’s watch us when my mom went back to work and so we just played with the other kids all summer. I have really fond memories of fort building, tag, talent shows, watching the Price is Right and Monopoly marathons. The mom who watched us also took us to the local pond to swim almost every day. As a teenager I worked at a local tourist trap but there were a ton of other teenagers working too so it was a lot of fun (social time while earning money). Once I could drive I had a pretty standard schedule of beach in the morning, work 3 to 10 and then head out after work until I had to be home around midnight.

  77. “I’m sorry, but there is something fundamentally wrong with a school system that creates this sort of schedule.”

    ITA. That is crazy!

  78. Houston, it IS frustrating, because everyone knew that this train was coming, even if they weren’t sure exactly when it would pull into the station, especially after the memory issues surfaced. There was absolutely no downside to putting in the application at the favored senior community. No fee, no commitment. If your name comes to the top of the list before you are ready to move, they just go down to the next person on the list, and you keep your #1 slot for the next available apartment. Because BIL has power of attorney, he could even have filed the application without telling MIL, who was totally not on board six months ago. DH and I knew that a crisis health situation was likely and wanted to plan ahead, but other sibs are definitely of the “we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it” mentality.
    Not surprisingly, NONE of them seems to have saved much for their children’s college tuition….or retirement, even though those trains have a fairly predictable schedule.

  79. Houston – so far I’m happy with the IB program – but DD is studying non-stop for the IB Biology Exam (which takes Wed and Thurs this week). It seems like a killer. I wish I could help her but it’s all way over my head – so I’ve decided to help her by not naging her about the usual complaints (not putting dishes in the dishwasher, not cleaning her hair out of the shower drain) until she’s done with her IB exams. Next week is math which will also be hard but not as bad as bio.

    L – we would get a nanny (college student) just for the summer so the kids could have lots of downtime and hang out with their friends. Both kids do lots of reading. DS has to earn his screen time which he’ll do this summer through a combination of doing extra math over the summer and chores.

  80. Seattle: DS has AP American History and AP Calc exams this week. 3 APs next week. I haven’t done much, except buy some good snack food and generally try and stay out of the way. Good luck to your DD with the Bio exam!

  81. Cruz just dropped out of the race, and earlier today I saw a poll saying Trump now polls ahead of Hillary. I can’t wrap my mind around the concept of a President Trump representing us to the world.

  82. ” I’ve decided to help her by not naging her about the usual complaints (not putting dishes in the dishwasher, not cleaning her hair out of the shower drain) until she’s done with her IB exams.”

    We (OK, more DW than I) similarly decided we’d pick up DS at school most days, rather than let him catch public transportation, until he’s done with AP exams. For DW or me, that takes an extra hour or so (typically a bit less for her, a bit more for me) each day, but it gives DS about an extra hour or more. 3 APs this week, three SAT subject tests on Saturday, and one more AP next week.

  83. Can you imagine him speaking to members of the military, or being in the situation room making impossible decisions? Or can you imagine him and Melania meeting with families when someone int he military has been killed? I can understand the anger and frustration that got him this far, but I can’t picture him having the skills or diplomacy to deal with any delicate situation.

  84. We survived a President W, although he did get us into a war he shoudn’t have. I think we can survive a President Trump.

    I’m really curious about who Trump would nominate for SCOTUS if he got elected. My guess is that his sister would be a big influence in that decision.

  85. If it happens, I’m sure we will survive it, but I think he is far, far worse than W. I cannot imagine him working with Angela Merkel or Saudi leaders, or telling all the other members of G8 how rich he is and how smart he is. If it comes to him, I hope he is just a figurehead and surrounds himself with good people.

  86. I agree with Scarlett. I can’t imagine such a schedule, daily for years.

    It is possible to partial day home school? Is there a precedent for that? In my city, one can elect to do that. In this example, one could home school PE and health (and add an online drawing class), and be out of school half the day. It might beat the status quo.

    It might be regional, but it doesn’t seem like not graduating from high school is really a hindrance for a totebag kid. It is so commonplace that all the universities have processes for admitting such kids. And for the totebag kid not going direct to school, I suppose a GED wouldn’t be beyond them.

    I can be somewhat nonchalant about this because this is years in the future for us. However, I have felt for many years that we are on a slow and steady path towards homeschooling our own children. I just don’t see the school as likely to meet their needs (like lunch).

  87. The summers following K – 5, DS did weekly specialty camps, one week at his grandparents’, and family vacation weeks. Beginning the summer following grade 6 he added week-long sleep-away camps to the mix. Last summer was scheduled the same way, but there were a couple of days for several weeks, where he would hang out in my office (playing Minecraft) while I worked or was at meetings. This summer as a rising 8th grader, he’ll have one programming camp at the local U, 3 Boy Scout sleepaway camps, 2 weeks at his grandparents (one with a camp and one without). We’re probably just going to have 1 week of family vacation since DH changed jobs and doesn’t have as much PTO. I’m tempted to let DS be home alone for a couple of weeks. I expect that he’ll spend most of the time playing video games and skyping his friends. At 13 he has aged out of some of his regular camps. And those camps don’t have CIT opportunities for him until he is 14.

    My summer as a rising 9th grader was spent most days with friends at the beach. That summer, my Mom would drop me off at a friend’s house that was about a mile from the beach, and she would pick me up at the beach. My summer as a rising 10th grader I got myself to the beach by bus. My summer as a rising 11th grader I was a paid athletic camp counselor and spent time at the beach.

  88. Ada, In hindsight, I realize that would have been a good path for one of my kids. At the time I viewed it as a dramatic black and white issue. I realize now that when the anxiety struck, I could have just decided to homeschool him the last two months of the school year and made the decision anew the following fall. I realize now that students move between being homeschooled and public or private school, and it is not the binary choice I was considering it.

  89. “I’m sorry, but there is something fundamentally wrong with a school system that creates this sort of schedule.”

    Not necessarily.

    I’ve written here before how DS does not always have a lunch break. But that’s the tradeoff the school makes that give it the flexibility to give the kids all the classes they want and/or need.

    And since eating in class is allowed, with some teachers even encouraging it, it’s not like he has to go hungry.

  90. Both my kids had some years when they did not have a lunch period and it was not horrible. Their teachers let them eat lunch in class. The kids made the choices to eliminate lunch so they could take particular classes. As Finn said, it is a tradeoff.

    IIRC, NY does not allow partial homeschooling. I’m sure the bureaucrats believe it would erode their power. I support more flexibility like partial homeschooling, summer school options, charter schools, school choice, and online classes. IMO these are all options that give families more choices and flexibility, but take control away from the government and unions.

  91. “Can you imagine him speaking to members of the military, …? Or can you imagine him and Melania meeting with families when someone int he military has been killed?”

    Of all things to worry about, those are the least of my concerns. I really never knew the guy before last year–maybe living in New York, you knew more of him? I never watched The Apprentice. But if you ran a search of comments I made on here late last summer, I wrote about the first time I actually sat down and watched one of his televised campaign speeches for about 45 minutes, and I said that this guy is someone who is gifted at making a genuine, personal connection with his audience. That’s not to say that I predicted he would win–three weeks ago I was still predicting his demise.

    I think if he wins (and that just got a whole lot more likely) he’ll be as prepared or unprepared for the Situation Room as anyone is.

    we had been watching NCIS and Lakefront Bargain Hunt, and I was brushing my teeth for bed when DW switched to news and told me that Cruz was done. I was shocked because I hadn’t been paying attention lately. But what’s especially disconcerting for Hillary is the contrasting image on the screen where he has won just about everything and is the presumptive nominee, and she is still losing primaries, and not just in kooky states, either. Just like not every Trump supporter is a bitter racist, not every Bernie voter really wants a Socialist president, or one who will push that agenda. So the personality, popularity, momentum, enthusiasm, newness, freshness, outsider-ness, someone-to-shake-things-up factors for a Trump/Clinton matchup seem to be shifting in his favor. And from this point forward, the inevitable story in the news will be about how Trump is shifting/pivoting/focusing on general election/being more Presidential/learning foreign policy. But he can STILL dominate the cycle and the media can still treat him like the underdog. And he’s been so crazy all along, that he either hasn’t said a whole lot about particular policy, so everything will be a big improvement. Whereas when Hillary finally dispatches Bernie, she’ll be mired in constant questions from all sides, including the Left, about whether she is already flip-flopping back away from Socialism, Keystone, free college, whether she really wants to fire all coal miners, and on and on.

  92. I don’t agree with no lunch in the HS because I think kids need a break in addition to the nutrition issue, but I had to help set up a teacher appreciation lunch in our HS on Tuesday. The other parents said that the kids that have to skip lunch are doing it because they want to take more electives in order to be able to apply to a certain set of colleges. The daily schedule has 9 periods, and the ninth period is reserved for no classes in order to meet with teachers or obtain additional help.

    There is already some A/B day thing to accommodate classes like Health, but If a child takes 5 academic subjects, music and/or art, PE…there starts to be very little room if you want to add an AP, Latin or a elective in something that you’re actually passionate about it. If you are in Science Research, then you still need to take regular science classes too.

  93. I wonder who Hillary is going to pick as her running mate. I would love to see Elizabeth Warren, but I think a more strategic pick is Sherrod Brown. Helps to kill OH and PA which the Donald needs if he is going to have a path to winning.

  94. I’ve been surprised to find many fellow NYers who are leaning Trump over Hillary. I think they’re similar to Milo, not strongly D or R, but on the fiscally conservative side. (Not sure if I characterized Milo accurately.)

  95. did you see Lee Harvey Oswald trending on twitter yesterday? this has been one strange election

  96. DS’s school does not permit kids to skip lunch period. So he takes two electives one period–one is orchestra–and switches off going to the two classes. He has to stay 1/2 hour or so one or twice a week to make up work in the non-orchestra class. I think there are a couple other kids who do something similar.
    He’s happy, the orchestra teacher is happy. (Really don’t care about the other teacher).

  97. Wine – Trump says Cruz’s dad was his assistant. Apparently the Donald not only reads the National Enquirer, but he also takes it as gospel.

  98. ” I think they’re similar to Milo, not strongly D or R, but on the fiscally conservative side. (Not sure if I characterized Milo accurately.)”

    That’s accurate, but I’d add with a growing penchant for cultural populism. That latter part has been the octane boost for Trump. And it drives the David Brooks world mad, which is all the more satisfying.

  99. I am beyond petrified over Trump. I have a son who will reach draft age under the next president. Trump is so unpredictable, and he has this weird Putin fascination. I could see him starting a stupid war with China. I am not ready to send my son to be cannon fodder for Trump.

  100. I think that there is still a lot of time between now and November for voters to decide which pill is less bitter to them. The fact that the Republican party apparatus (both corporatists and true believer conservatives) does not want Trump as its nominee, and the fact (appealing to many voters, and not just old stock whites) that Trump does not appear to be a controllable creature of the shadow elites, make it much harder to evaluate how PAC spending and get out the vote grass roots efforts will play out.

  101. Like Mooshi, I don’t mind waiting at activities because it gives me a chance to interact with a wide range of area parents. I have described all the schooling options here, camps etc. I have obtained all sorts of useful and spoken with people of differing view points. Ordinarily, I wouldn’t have met these folks.
    Scarlett – just today my Mom mentioned on going family drama with regards to my uncle’s care. It is hard when the people most directly concerned with the care don’t take appropriate action.

  102. The thing is, you can have summer school in the context of a completely public school system. That is the system under which I went to school. In fact, the only reason I was able to graduate HS at all, given my crazy quilt of credits from 3 different schools, was because of summer school and correspondence courses. There are summer school options in NYC. The problem here is the snotty attitude of the microdistricts.

  103. “That’s accurate, but I’d add with a growing penchant for cultural populism. That latter part has been the octane boost for Trump. And it drives the David Brooks world mad, which is all the more satisfying.”

    +1. I’m a Bernie fan, but am open to Trump. So glad that Cruz dropped out. I really hated him.

  104. “I am not ready to send my son to be cannon fodder for Trump.”

    I fear Hillary’s military aggression more than Trump’s.

  105. Mooshi and wine –

    All the same fears about starting wars were expressed about Regan, too.

    Houston – My mom’s kind of a Bernie fan, too: “He’s a nice guy.” She was also a big Obama fan during the 2008 primaries.

    My Dad has long expressed, only half-jokingly, a desire for a Bernie vs. Trump matchup. “It will be a Subway Series – Yankees vs. Mets. Two New Yorkers going at it.”

  106. I haven’t looked at public school require ments in the higher grades but here I was surprised when a family who moved from New York City took their kid out of public in the fifth grade and enrolled him in online school. My point is as MBT mentioned there is a lot of fluidity happening with regard to how students are going through K-12. It is not apparent now but at some point will be.
    The Detroit Public schools sick outs and the pictures of the degrading schools shook me yesterday.

  107. So glad that Cruz dropped out. I really hated him.

    +1 I was an anyone but Cruz guy. He is just so loathsome and disgusting.

    As for Trump, I kinda like him. I don’t think he is going to win but he crushed Cruz and that’s all that matters.

  108. I did not like Reagan and voted against him (my first ever election) but there is a big difference between him and Trump. Reagan was predictiable. You might not agree with his worldview, but he had one. Trump is crazycakes. He has no worldview, except perhaps always having a model on his arm, and yelling louder than the next guy. Yes, he is entertaining, and that is why he has gotten so far. But unlike Reagan, he has NO governing experience, NO theory of governance, NO knowledge of the world, and NO coteriie of experienced advisors. He says anything. I think he would believe anything. He reminds me of nothing so much as Vladmir Putin, a man totally in love with himself and his machismo image. And Vladimir Putin has been happy to get Russia involved in stupid wars

  109. “I don’t think he is going to win”

    The only thing is, Trump is the one person in this whole thing who has consistently and shockingly outperformed all logical analyses and expectations. Compare that against someone who is not a great candidate and who consistently underperforms expectations.

    If Trump can easily destroy Jeb!, then it’s certainly possible that he can beat Hillary. In a way, it’s the same fight. Sure, the primaries are different from the general, but they’re not THAT different. We’re at record low levels of voters who actually identify with any one party, and there’s not a lot of loyalty even from those who do–not for the party Establishments, and really not for any ideology.

  110. Hillary Clinton’s foreign policy is likely to be not much different from current policy – very middle of the road. I suspect she is a tad more interventionist than Obama, and a tad less than George W Bush. I foresee her as being closest to Bush Senior, who did get us into a war of course, but a very well planned one. Hillary Clinton is nothing but cautious.

  111. “if Bernie runs as 3rd party who do you think will win in Nov?”

    Trump, no question.

  112. Bernie vs Trump: Trump will have half the country cowering under their beds with their guns, waiting for Commie Bernie to come after them. Seriously. Trump defeated all his opponents by sliming them to death. He will do the same to Bernie. It is just too easy – most of the country is not going to be on board with a socialist, which equals Commie in much of the country

    Bernie only polls well because he has never been inspected closely by a truly hostile opponent

  113. “Trump defeated all his opponents by sliming them to death. He will do the same to Bernie. ”

    most of the Bernie fans I know won’t be turned off Bernie by Trump’s slime, the opposite I think

  114. I think the summer school options in NYC are only for the kids that failed/missed a class during the school year. The city is able to combine many schools and offer summer school in central locations. I don’t think you can enroll just because you want to take more classes, or get ahead.

  115. No, but the vast hordes of centrists could be convinced to vote for Trump if Bernie is the opponent. Those are the people who would have trouble voting for a socialist.

  116. “Trump defeated all his opponents by sliming them to death.”

    What do you mean? How did he slime Jeb?

    I’m really asking, not arguing. I would say he defeated them by capturing the story and being more exciting and interesting.

  117. I wouldn’t vote for Bernie if he were the nominee. I probably would just sit this one out. I think I am a pretty typical Hillary supporter

  118. Lauren, when I was looking into options for Regents Physics, I was told their are programs in the Bronx that let you take it just to get ahead. But our district won’t take the credit.

  119. I believe that since the Nixon Kennedy televised debates, a number of elections have gone to the candidate who passed the which one would you rather have beer with test. For me that is Bernie, hands down. I still don’t want him as president

  120. I am staying out of political discussion because the for and against different candidates has gotten very heated in our house. From what I can tell, my house wants bits and pieces from Hillary, Trump and Sanders – they are yet to embrace one candidate totally. And they are trying to picture which of these would fit in the White House visually.

  121. “All the same fears about starting wars were expressed about Reagan, too.”

    Yeah, and when Bush was elected, celebrities threatened to move overseas. And when Obama was elected, those celebrities and European elites swooned. And are we any better off as a country because Obama is a smart guy, a true totebagger who exudes cool and can deliver funny lines as well as many professional entertainers? Obama had zero experience running anything when he was elected, but for better or for worse the country seems to run itself regardless of who is living at the White House. There is no draft, there’s not going to be a draft, but if the unthinkable happens, women will also be drafted so young men will have 50% less chance of being called up.

    I am watching a great Ken Burns documentary on the Roosevelts and wishing that class acts like FDR and Eleanor were still attracted to public service.

  122. Let’s also remember that there’s still this lingering issue of a possible indictment for Hillary. If she actually is indicted, that’s really bad. If the DoJ declines to indict, it gives Trump a big bucket of fodder to relentlessly attack her as a crooked incumbent and a product of insider corruption, business as usual, etc.

    And nobody–NOBODY–can push a story like that better than Trump; just look at what he did with something as minor and far-fetched as the birth certificate thing, and with no national platform.

  123. The ironic thing is that my politics are much closer to Bernie’s than anyone else. I would love single payer healthcare, and I think we need a lot more oversight of Wall Street. But I also value realism.Bernie’s plans have a thousand holes in them, and as Obama showed, change does not happen just because you want it. Most importantly though, I think Trump would eat Bernie alive, and keeping Trump out is my most important goal.

  124. MM – me, too. Bernie is just too clueles. For me, being smart and realistic are necessary traits for a candidate to possess. I would probably vote for Kasich if he got the nomination even though I do not agree with almost any of his policy positions. But he is smart and compromises and isn’t a boor. I think that stuff matters way more than the actual policies.

  125. How did he slime Jeb?

    All those comments about Jeb! being “low energy.”

  126. I fear Hillary’s military aggression more than Trump’s.

    Trump’s an isolationist! They are saying the neocon wing of the Republican party is now voting for Hillary in large numbers.

  127. I guess I was thinking sliming meant directed attacks on background.

    The low energy thing is funny, and it just gets back to personality which I said before. Also because it visibly got under Jeb’s skin during the debates, and you can only imagine how something like that extrapolates to when he’s on stage with Hillary. If she ignores it, she seems weak. If she defends against it, she’s whiney. If she attacks back, she sounds shrill. I just don’t see any good options for her. I’m thinking that nobody was more disappointed in Cruz’s concession than she was.

  128. I just don’t see any good options for her.

    Humor him i.e. Reagan v. Carter – “There you go again.”

  129. The low energy comments are exactly what I mean by sliming. Trump’s tactic is to call people names, names that often have no basis in anything, but since he repeats it over and over and has so much fun doing it, the name sticks. Lyin Ted, Little Marco… Only Kasich escaped because Kasich was deemed ignorable. Trump’s campaign strategy is patterned after your 7th grade bully.

  130. Yes, I think it is going to be tough going for Hillary. It would be tough going for any candidate. I think she should simply laugh at him and plow on. Whether she has the discipline to do it is anyone’s guess.

  131. “I think she should simply laugh at him and plow on.”

    Have you heard her laugh? It doesn’t work for her.

    Another Democrat, a better politician, could pull it off. Biden could laugh off Trump like he laughed off Paul Ryan. Obama could do it, appearing cool and dismissive and unfazed.

    But Hillary doesn’t have that. She wants to talk about issues, like it’s a high school debate contest. Trump doesn’t care about issues, only message.

  132. names that often have no basis in anything, but since he repeats it over and over and has so much fun doing it, the name sticks. Lyin Ted, Little Marco

    The names totally have a basis in something – that’s why it works. Rubio is too short to be president and Cruz is a skeezy slime-bag.

  133. Milo,

    The new CNN/ORC Poll, completed ahead of Trump’s victory last night, found Clinton leads 54% to 41%, a 13-point edge over the New York businessman, her largest lead since last July

    You may think more people have a problem with Hillary than is actually the case.

  134. I also think she is going to have to work very, very hard to get a high minority turnout. And that is possible, since I think there is real terror of Trump in those communities.

  135. Trump is all about ad-hominem attacks. Its fun to hear him speak as in a train-wreck kinda way. I am just glad he ousted Cruz. These people are making me wish for Jeb!
    Bernie has a feel good message, but to me he is a crusty old guy, not a graceful loser, and has an ego.
    Hilary FTW for me, though I have to acknowledge she is not where I want my candidate to be in in terms of foreign policy. She is also not a great campaigner unfortunately.

  136. Trump was gracious in victory. This is the first good thing I could say about him.

  137. Trump is ridiculous and frightening. Good grief! I hope that Hillary can mobilize and get out the voters in November. :-0

  138. Lauren/MM/CoC – summer school works the same way here; it’s really for remediation except at the one private that I know offering classes. The science and math classes are for that or to get ahead/become eligible for the calculus track

    whoever said it – you did not vote against anyone. we’re not given that choice.

    Given last night’s events, I am likely to be a Trump voter come November. Just no way I can vote for Hillary.

    “my house wants bits and pieces from Hillary, Trump and Sanders” Louise, isn’t that how most of us are? I want someone who is fiscally conservative (which to me means spend money most effectively, get good value) and socially liberal (civil/reproductive rights), pro-single payer because I have never heard a good argument for having health services* tied to one’s employer or employment status. I realize nothing is free, but we also need to do something about out infrastructure. I’m sure others are surprised there have not been other significant bridge collapses like what happened in the Twin Cities several years back.

    But there aren’t really candidates like that.

    *notice I did not say “insurance”. We do not need health “insurance”. We just need health services.

    Which, yeah, could get us into the rationing discussion. But that’s for another day.

  139. I so wanted to stay away from the Totebag until lunch… but the politics got me back in…

    I’m glad Cruz is out, but Kasich alone basically gives the nomination to Trump. He scares me. Yes, he’s an isolationist, but he’s also willing to say anything, and I don’t think his staff could keep him from calling world leaders names. And some of them are crazy enough to launch an attack just because Trump called them a name.

    If Bernie runs 3rd party, he will hand the presidency to Trump. If Bernie loses, he needs to convince his supporters to vote HRC because she’s not Trump.

    Sure the nation would survive, but I don’t know how well we’d survive.

    Anyone else feel like we’re living in the alternate 1985 from Back to the Future?

    Fred – After that collapse, RI found out that something like 90% of bridges and overpasses in the state are near collapse. I’m absolutely shocked a massive bridge collapse hasn’t happened here. And it makes me fear my commute (I snake my way along some of the least maintained highway system in the state).

  140. ” If Bernie loses, he needs to convince his supporters to vote HRC because she’s not Trump.”

    Here’s where I think the calculus breaks down. Sure, most of the diehard liberals who are for Bernie now will either vote for Hillary or stay home. But I think a significant portion of those who have been voting for him are not all that liberal; they just want to shake things up, and a good chunk of those may very well go to Trump. They’re the Independents who have been mostly ignored, and they’re the ones who are giving Sanders these victories in open-primary states.

  141. Bernie fans are also like me, former Republicans who are horrified with our Republican choices this election

  142. Back to the lunch issue for a moment– while DS doesn’t always have a lunch break, he does have a break every day, so he has a chance to do things like see his counselor, do homework, take violin lessons, and work as a TA. The school limits the number of classes students can take to ensure all students have daily breaks, but by not always having the break at lunchtime provides the flexibility to put the kids in all the courses they need/want. IMO, that is a worthwhile tradeoff.

  143. “not every Bernie voter really wants a Socialist president”
    “I’ve been surprised to find many fellow NYers who are leaning Trump over Hillary.”
    “But I think a significant portion of those who have been voting for him [Sanders] are not all that liberal; they just want to shake things up”

    I still think that whoever runs against Hillary will get a significant number of votes because he (or she) is not Hillary.

  144. “I fear Hillary’s military aggression more than Trump’s.”

    So do I. Hillary is much more hawkish than Trump, who, as Rhett pointed out, is an isolationist, while Hillary voted to invade Iraq and, to my knowledge, remains unapologetic about it.

  145. “I want someone who is fiscally conservative (which to me means spend money most effectively, get good value) and socially liberal (civil/reproductive rights)”

    Gary Johnson?

    Or whoever wins the Libertarian nomination?

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