Totebag Demographics

by Grace aka costofcollege

Have you tried the Esri Zip Code Lookup?  It shows you median income and age, population density as well as the predominant demographic segments for your zip code.  Try it HERE.

Take these polls to share what you found from the zip code lookup:


Do the results match what you observe?  Any surprises?  How about the demographic segments?  Which segment matches you best?  Where would you rather live — your ideal zip code?

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117 thoughts on “Totebag Demographics

  1. It says my zip code is 55% “top tier” with the next highest percentage being “urban chic”.

    It says “every home maintenance chore in our lavish homes is handled by a variety of contracted services.” That’s fairly dead on (we’re one of the only families that I know who do our own yard and do not have cleaners.)

    I love where we live, it’s affluent, but people are still fairly down to earth and it is very family oriented. Sort of an old school neighborhood where kids play outside and in the street with a lot of lemonade stands in the summer. Ideally I’d live in Atlanta during the year and summer on Cape Cod (that’s my ten year plan).

  2. “We’re affluent young families who have traded up to new housing in the suburbs of growing metro areas.. Bigger houses with mortgages are our compromises for longer commutes. With an eye to the future, we’re consulting with financial planners to ensure security. Style matters in décor and fashion; we’re furnishing our new homes and are already contracting for remodeling projects. Late model, imported SUVs, luxury cars, or minivans are in our driveways. Even though we’re adept at using our devices, we lament the loss of personal time because of being connected so frequently. Physical fitness is a priority; we work out on our home equipment or at the gym. We hike, bike, swim, golf, visit theme parks or water parks, and support charities.”

    Distressingly accurate. CoC, I don’t see where it tells me the stuff that you’re collecting in the survey you set up.

  3. Our zip code is diverse, on both income and population density, compared to our neighboring zip codes that are more homogenous. We have an area that is very urban – high cost, high density urban apartments/condos to the low-cost, high density subsidized housing and almost everything in between. We have a major road that bisects our zip code. If this data were available for each of those halves, you would see two very different medians.

    That said, the largest percentage 39% fell into the NeWest category, which I think is accurate and pulls down the median income for the zip code overall. We are a mix of the Professional Pride and Savvy Suburbanite. We make about double the median for our zip code, live in a less dense, single family dwelling neighborhood, and the mortgage payments in our neighborhood are roughly the same as the rent for the high-end 1500 square foot rentals. When our neighborhood was developed, it was considered suburban by locals, but that has shifted to urban as what were the next towns over are now part of our metro area.

  4. My zip’s population density as rural, when I would have guessed suburban, but our zip code is huge and covers a fair amount of undeveloped property, currently populated by cows, so I guess it makes sense. (This is also what drives our 25 minute law enforcement response times, causing our HOAs out here to pay for contract deputies).

    Although I would love easy access to some of Houston’s wonderful restaurants, where we live suits me. Our development is built around man made lakes, with walking trails all along them. Our house has two lakes in the back/side yards. I find walking with these nature views each evening to be so relaxing, and that has more value to me than the convenience I’m missing. Being new to the neighborhood, and our kids not a part of the schools, I feel weirdly not connected to the people, although my neighbors are all very nice. It doesn’t bother me, or I’d do something about it, but it’s different. I could definitely see us staying here into retirement, though, because we like the walking, biking, kayaking convenience so much.

  5. Not really surprised by anything said.

    Do the results match what you observe? I would say more suburban than rural…our pop density number was very close to the low end of the suburban category.

    How Which segment matches you best? our ZIP came up 35% exurbanites, 17% top tier, 15% savvy suburbanites, which I think is vary fair for both the town and how our DW & I live our lives (a blend of those three).

    Where would you rather live — your ideal zip code? something like where we are, but with a shorter winter and lower taxes, so we are looking south and/or southwest of here.

    Interesting to me, the town I grew up in as a teen is almost all top tier, with a few exurbanites and city lights thrown in for “balance”. Where I lived thru 7th grade is a lot lower on the SES ladder.

    Very cool post!

  6. We are borderline suburban/town-city, which makes sense. Our little neighborhood is filled with too-expensive houses, but there are a ton of apartment buildings nearby. We are 47% “metro renters” and 38% “laptops and lattes”, which seems about right.

    MBT, when you talk about your lakes and walking trails, I’m so jealous.

  7. Houston, when my daughter has to be on campus at 8 or 8:30 it takes her more than an hour and a half to get there. There are definitely trade-offs.

  8. Let’s see… 32% of my zip code falls into “Parks and Rec” tier… Mostly married couples in single family homes (yup). “We achieved the dream of home ownership by living within our means and buying an affordable older home in a well-established neighborhood. We’re practically suburbanites who are two-income, married couples approaching retirement age; however we’re still working because we’re comfortable in our jobs and homes with no plans to retire soon. Stocking up on staples at warehouse stores and thoroughly researching big-ticket items before purchase confirm our consumer caution. This also extends to our vehicles; price and practicality are the primary considerations before selecting a domestic truck/SUV. Exercising is part of our routing; we take advantage of local parks, gyms, and home equipment. Movies, dinner out, and gambling online or at casinos fill leisure hours.”

    The other two categories are retirement (20%) and comfortable empty nesters (16%).

    I think those descriptions are pretty accurate. The median income and age of my zip code does indicate retirement/empty nesters on fixed income. I think the demographic is changing more towards the “park and rec”, and maybe the “soccer mom” or “in style” people as the older folks move out (RI isn’t friendly to the fixed income set), and home prices remain low (in my zip code). My neighborhood has more younger folks moving in (which is nice for us, for a while, we were the youngest people on our block). I’d be interested to review this after the next Census to see how the changes my mayor is proposing change our demographic.

    Personally, I make double the median income, and disturbingly fit the “park and rec” set (ignoring the age descriptors)… it’s kind of gross. The zip code I want to move to is the “top tier” set. Maybe in 5-10 years when we outgrow our house now.

  9. No surprise – the “Tapestry,” median income and age are skewed by the college student population, and my zip code is more densely populated than the surrounding county but still falls under rural. I’d guess that rather than the median, we actually have a mix of top and bottom demographics.

  10. We are suburban – top tier, urban chic, golden years are the 3 top segments.

    Where I grew up and where I most like to go on vacation are “rural”. I miss not having any traffic!

  11. L – every time our parents visit they comment how they don’t know how we stand the traffic where we live. I don’t even notice it anymore and it really doesn’t seem that bad considering we don’t have the typical stuck on the highway stuff to deal with. It’s just around town. But I grew up in a town with one stop light so I guess I see their point.

  12. No surprise – the segments that came up were laptops and lattes, emerald city and in style. Quite Totebaggy.

  13. Hah — apparently, we are basically all married couples who spend all of our free time and money on our homes; the only variables appear to be with or without kids, and whether you’re MC or UMC. Which seems pretty dead on. Alas, we are not nearly trendy or hip enough to qualify as “in style” or “lattes,” and we are not high-income enough to be “top-tier” — which, again, seems pretty dead-on.

    Two surprises: (1) Density: we are completely mid-range for “suburban,” but we actually have 3x the density of the county average. But then again, the county include Large Tracts of Land in some other places, so I guess that brings the average down. (2) Average income: given our housing prices, I am surprised that we are not just in the $67-99K category, but at the extreme low end. I am guessing that the same high variability AustinMom mentions bring down the overall average quite significantly; we have sort of a strip of better-off extending to the western edge of the county, surrounded by less well-off areas (not to mention two colleges) on the other three sides.

    You know, I would expect the presence of those two schools to edge us slightly closer toward the hipness thing. But it is still Baltimore (and worse: the suburbs thereof, where all of the parents of those hip college students live . . .).

  14. The Tapestry description pegs us as “Trendsetters” – 65%, “Laptops and Lattes” – 22% and “City Strivers” – 10% – all geared towards primarily towards singles. That took me a bit by surprise because I view the neighborhood as very family friendly and a “nanny-ville”. I generally fall into the “Laptops and Lattes” category, except I own, not rent.

    Interesting post COC.

  15. I’m going to call bullshit on these income numbers. The median household! income on Beacon Hill is $106k and the median household! income in the Conyers Farm neighborhood of Greenwich CT. is $146k? Um, no.

  16. The results seem right on to me based on my observations of the new neighborhood after our few months here. Median income is in the mid-50k range and population density is suburban. Top three “segments” are Up and Coming Families, American Dreamers, and Boomburbs. Of the three, we probably most closely fit the Up and Coming Families category–“We traded a longer commute time for an affordable new house in a new suburban development. Even though credit card debt, student loans, and mortgage payments tighten our budget, we’re saving for retirement and donating to charities.” That’s totally us minus the CC debt. It also says we probably have late model imported SUVs–check–and that we go online for shopping, banking, entertainment, and information–check.

  17. Our median income is $75K, which sounds about right (given all the renters we have).

  18. Green Acres (married couples at or nearing retirement) describe our area of the zip code best, but front porches (diverse young families) exist in other parts of the zip code. I looked at several zip codes around us. Other than the area around the university, we have mostly older married couples who engage in hunting, fishing and vegetable gardening- check!

  19. I checked zip 97721 (a low population density part of the state) and the population density per square mile rounds to 0! That cracks me up…

  20. Atlanta, I had the same description. I feel like it should be read aloud with the same light british accent my dermatologist office uses on their automated answer line. I dunno about the “Shop at high end retailers for anything we desire” – jeeze cue Robyn Leach. Kind of makes me want to barf

  21. There was a great Malcolm Gladwell article some years ago discussing how ridiculously awful police profilers are at profiling murder suspects. So many of the profiles will read something like “Your suspect is probably a male, young to middle-aged. He may be married or single, but chances are that he has had trouble with relationships at some point in his life–he has likely experienced the pain of rejection from women on at least one occasion. His parents may be divorced, and if they’re married, they probably had at least some fights when he was growing up. He probably holds a normal job…”

    Look carefully, and that’s kind of how these “tapestry” descriptions read.

  22. This was amazingly accurate – at least it describes me. Our area is 23% city lights which is pretty true.

    Happy Earth Day!

  23. Our whole area is suburban. To me it is suburban/urban – though per official numbers our density will have to increase significantly for that to happen. What is interesting is the creation of high density housing and amenities (including stores, restaurants, bars) near the transit stations. Previously this was all acres of vacant land at the edge of the city but now it is new apartments.
    Lots of construction all around.

  24. Here’s one of the lines I’m thinking of from a zip code I searched:

    “Late model minivans or SUVS, or compact cars, may be in the driveway.”

    Profound! :)

  25. 92% top tier. Seems about right. When we first moved here, I was kind of shocked at the wealth. There is quite a bit of racial/ethnic diversity, but very little financial diversity.

  26. My town has three zip codes. I live just inside one zip code, but the schools we’re zoned for are in another zip code and we also vote in the other zip code. So, it’s either City Lights, Pleasantville and Exurbanites OR Top Tier, Urban Chic and Pleasantville. The area I spent the first 30 years of my life in is International Marketplace, Downtown Melting Pot and City Lights.
    I also think the income numbers are off.

  27. Like ATM – the tiers are much more “young hip single” oriented than I would have guessed. 80% “Metro Renters”. The description is pretty accurate though I suppose – shopping at Whole Foods and Nordstrom and living in big buildings, although there are lots of owner-occupied condo units around so “Renters” seems like a bit of a misnomer. But it is more family-friendly than the description would imply. I feel like there are kids & strollers everywhere!

  28. The Tapestry and Income seem about right for my zip – Top Tier, Exurbanites,Urban Chic were the top three. I would think a lot of totebaggers fall into the Urban Chic category: Portfolios are healthy, filled with stocks, bonds, and real estate investments..Leisure time is spent visiting museums, traveling, drinking imported wine, going out to the movies, skiing, and practicing yoga.

  29. It’s funny that our society ascribes such meaning to whether someone rents or owns his residence.

  30. @Milo — I had the same thought as you about the “Tapestry” description, though my analogy was “horoscope” instead of “police profiler.” My area is closely split between 3 demographics, and they all read *exactly* the same, except one was younger, and another was lower-income. It was like, yeah, we’re all the same, except some drive Toyotas and some drive Lexuses (Lexi?).

    Of course, an alternate explanation could just be that we’re not all as special and distinct as we like to think. :-)

  31. Milo, I agree–like the bit about using the internet in the one description–I sincerely doubt that is limited to “Up and Coming Families.”

  32. June and LfB – Yep, I thought of the horoscope and fortune cookie comparison. I think you’re supposed to read all the Tapestry statements with “in bed” added to the end.

    “We’re well-educated, well-read, and well-capitalized IN BED!”

  33. @Milo – the rent/own, indicates the “feel” of a neighborhood. I don’t think it is unique to our society.
    In the home country, when my parents were looking for apartments, they wanted to find out how many apartments in a building were given out as rentals vs. owner occupied (Rentals have recently started becoming more common, previously very few people wanted to rent out due to laws in favor of tenants). A building with owners meant you can get to know your neighbors whereas buildings with lots of rentals/absentee owners meant lack of a stable community.

  34. Moxie – I know but it’s probably all true. My neighborhood is nice, it’s a mix of original ranches and new $1.5M homes, but people are normal. But travel a few miles away and it’s the $5 – $10 million houses and yes, those people are probably booking vacations at the drop of a hat and going to upscale stores and buying anything their heart desires.

    “We’ve achieved our corporate goals and can now either consult or operate our own businesses” – I do see this quite a bit too.

  35. Middleburg

    Middleburg neighborhoods transformed from the easy
    pace of country living to semirural subdivisions in the last
    decade, when the housing boom reached out. Residents
    are conservative, family-oriented consumers. Still more
    country than rock and roll, they are thrifty but willing to
    carry some debt and are already investing in their futures.
    They rely on their smartphones and mobile devices to stay
    in touch and pride themselves on their expertise. They
    prefer to buy American and travel in the US. This market
    is younger but growing in size and assets.

    • Semirural locales within metropolitan areas.
    • Neighborhoods changed rapidly in the
    previous decade with the addition of
    new single-family homes.
    • Include a number of mobile homes
    (Index 152).
    • Affordable housing, median value of
    $158,000 (Index 89) with a low vacancy rate.
    • Young couples, many with children;
    average household size is 2.73.

    • Education: 66% with a high school diploma
    or some college.
    • Unemployment rate lower at 7.4%
    (Index 85).
    • Labor force participation typical of a
    younger population at 66.7% (Index 106).
    • Traditional values are the norm here—
    faith, country, and family.
    • Prefer to buy American and for a
    good price.
    • Comfortable with the latest in technology,
    for convenience (online banking or saving
    money on landlines) and entertainment.

  36. Rhett – Ha! They all look like that! And they all have these huge marble foyers and wood paneled libraries. That would just never be my taste in a million years. But they also are on these huge 2 acre lots so I can see the ““every home maintenance chore in our lavish homes is handled by a variety of contracted services.” You just can’t mow those lawns yourself!

  37. @WCE – do you have an email I can find you at? Or can you drop me a note at hmdorsi at gmail ?

  38. Ours shows as much more fragmented than most of you are reporting — top category at only 17% is Urban Chic, and then at 12% each we have In Style and Emerald City.

  39. I visited a family of four in a 5000 sq. ft. house. On a daily basis, half the house was unused – the formal living and dining room, two guest bedrooms and the home office were unused. The playroom/media room in the basement was used when the kids friends came over.

  40. @HM — No, we were similar — my top three were 17, 15, and 11. It’s just that they were all slightly different versions of the same thing.

    Although all three of yours sound better than mine. :-)

  41. I don’t know how I feel about this thing. I put in my post office zip code, and it came back as 74% top tier. The community in that zip is one of the wealthiest in the US, but I don’t really live there. It is just my PO. I put in the zip next door for my actual community where I live/school district and that came back at 100% top tier even though it is a diverse community.

  42. CoC will cringe at this. Allboys, too, if she ever reads this. I stopped by the school to pick up my kid for a dr’s appt. The secretary kept trying to contact the teacher unsuccessfully, and then said “oh wait, you know what? I think they went outside to pick up trash for Earth Day.” I said “well at least we won’t be missing any academics.”

    I’m still waiting in the office.

  43. My daughter wanted to make a poster for earth day that said, “Don’t cut down trees.” I pointed out that we use a lot of trees for art projects. She amended it to say, “Don’t cut down too many trees.” I think she is right on track for middle management.

  44. it is a diverse community.

    You have the really rich, the super rich, the stinking rich, old money, new money…. Honestly, it’s very diverse. I think there is even an upper middle class family.

  45. My favorite tapestry is “fresh ambitions”… because I don’t feel like typing/copying & pasting, type in zip code 02907. It’s in Providence. The title is a very nice way to put what it describes… and almost makes it sound not urban.

    I grew up 50/50 between city lights and pleasantville. Both would apply… and I agree with the median income for the area – a lot of people who bought homes ~30 years ago but have lower income next door to people who bought the >$400k homes and have the >$100k income. And the pleasantville description works – adult children living with their parents to make ends meet (or help out with the cost of home ownership).

  46. Milo,

    I like that one, it’s big but it doesn’t need to resort to 85 different roof lines to try and mask its bulk.

  47. That’s because people in 1925 weren’t worrying about masking their wealth. And if you want that house on just 100 acres, it’s only $10M.

    The results of the second poll are interesting. We have 11 respondents in either “rural” or even (population-)”desert,” compared to only 4 in “urban” or “metropolis.”

  48. My town is dominated by Dorms to Diplomas (34%) and College Towns (23%), but the next town over (adjacent zip code) is a lot more segmented with these top 3:
    22% In Style
    15% Middleburg
    15 % Old and Newcomers
    That town is right off the interstate and serves as a less expensive bedroom community for both my town and the cities 20-30 miles away, but it also has its own business community and people who have lived there for generations. It’s funny that these two towns have population densities of 390 & 344, while the adjacent zip codes are in the range of 21-78. Even the city of Roanoke, at 3889, is only dense enough to qualify as Suburban.

  49. compared to only 4 in “urban” or “metropolis.”

    The Boston Marathon finish line in the heart of the city (02116) doesn’t qualify as urban as the population is 23,876 per square mile. It sure seems urban to me.

  50. L,

    The place in Maine is lovely. But, it needs a pool* as that water is waaaay to cold to ever swim in.

    * It does hint at a rather large reflecting pool – maybe it’s swim-able yet tasteful?

  51. Rhett – I was going to say the same thing. Put it on a series of flatbed trucks and move it to Lake of the Ozarks.

  52. Rhett – you could probably just enlarge/deepen the reflecting pool a bit, if you wanted. I would of course need a salt-water or copper-filter pool. No chlorine, that is for peons.

  53. Also, the whole point of the summer home is that it’s in a place that doesn’t get too hot. YMMV on what “too hot” is. :)

  54. The most densely populated zip code here just squeaks into the fully urban category at 26K and change. I think it’s partly to do with the size of a zip code — you need to have not just high population density at a particular spot, but over a large enough area that the whole zip code qualifies. Also a business/financial district is not going to have as high a population density even if it looks very urban, if people aren’t mostly living there.

  55. “No chlorine, that is for peons.”

    Salt = NaCl. Break those apart by electrolysis and guess what you have? :)

  56. Milo,

    Lake of the Ozarks summer weather: “it is most humid around July 14, rising above 90% (very humid) three days out of four.”

  57. For example, our downtown business district and Waikiki (the tourist district) are the biggest concentrations of high-rises and definitely look urban from the street, but population density is in the 9K and 13K range respectively. The great majority of the people who are there on a given day don’t actually live in that zip code.

  58. The Middleburg and Maine houses are built to a human scale – the architects made sure the room scale and ceiling heights felt comfortable, and there are nooks.

    The Weston and Atlanta houses seem like canvases for decorators and monuments to money. The ceilings are too high, the great room a gymnasium with chandeliers.

    If I can’t picture four kids, a dog, grandpa and the model trains spread out on the floor, I don’t consider it a home :)

    Our zip code is top tier and urban chic, which sounds semi-applicable. There is a lot of emphasis on education that the descriptions don’t reflect.

  59. OK, Milo, I’ll say “not ONLY chloride for the pool system”. Deal? ;)

    Lake of the Ozarks July high temperatures are 87-89. Blecccccccccccccchhhh.

  60. model trains spread out on the floor

    You could have trains you can ride – like in Silver Spoons:

  61. Oh love that Maine summer home – and agree with Sky’s comment completely.

  62. The house that I posted about the other day went for only one million. Not sure how much land went with it. The entire estate went for $3.6 million, divided up into 18 parcels. The original farm was 818 acres. John Malone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Malone), the largest U.S landowner has been buying lots of farms around here in the past few years. Not sure why.

  63. SF,

    As of 1 February 2011, he has surpassed Ted Turner as the largest individual private landowner in the United States, owning 2,100,000 acres

    That is a lot.

  64. I just skimmed the wiki article on John Malone. Although a billionaire, he vacations in an RV. A man after Milo’s heart.

  65. We have two zip codes in my town (the other one that has some top tier is 20K more per year avg income – up one category). I live on the wrong side of the cow path, I guess. My kids are always telling me I am underhoused. No dominant tapestry category in my zip.

  66. Rupert Murdoch reportedly had concerns that he might lose the control of his company to Malone, and tried to oust him from the firm with a “poison pill” strategy

    Poison pill:

    A strategy used by corporations to discourage hostile takeovers. With a poison pill, the target company attempts to make its stock less attractive to the acquirer. There are two types of poison pills:

    1. A “flip-in” allows existing shareholders (except the acquirer) to buy more shares at a discount.

    2. A “flip-over” allows stockholders to buy the acquirer’s shares at a discounted price after the merger.

    How do they say “everyone can buy shares at X discounted price, except you, John”?

  67. Just to see what the descriptions were for other income levels, I looked up the zip code where my husband grew up. It is 1/2 Barrios Urbanos, and 1/3 Hardscrabble Road. The descriptions there are fairly accurate, including the popularity of Home Shopping Network and Spanish language radio, as well as the inability to save for retirement or further education.

  68. MBT – I looked up last summer’s lake house rental, and found some totally different tapestries. It became a lot more obvious that this site is just publishing the compiled results of marketing data mining, but we’ve got “Southern Satellites,” “Silver and Gold,” and “Rural Resort Dwellers.”

    The description in the first one is less than flattering, and in stark contrast to a lot of what people have quoted about their own zip codes: “…we look for bargains and aren’t particularly concerned about brands and quality. Slow to adapt to technology, we get most of our information from satellite TV….we fish, hunt, own pets, work on our vehicles…for a treat, we’ll eat out at a low-cost family restaurant or a drive-in.”

    Good information, I imagine, if you’re a consultant for Darden Restaurants or YUM! Brands or Dollar General or Autozone…

  69. Equally represented there are “Silver and Gold”: We’re affluent retirees who live in exclusive communities in warm climates. We worked hard, invested wisely, and now we’re experiencing the payoff. We drive luxury cars or SUVs and donate generously to charity. We contract for home maintenance services so chores don’t interfere with our active social life, trips, golf games, and boating. The Internet is used to get the news and check our investments…”

  70. My in-laws’ town is 85% Southern Satellites, despite being located in the Northwest. The other 15% is The Great Outdoors, which looks to be what you get when Southern Satellites are financially secure.

  71. One of the two zip codes of my youth was in the lowest income group.

    “… Hoping for good luck, we buy lottery tickets and gamble at casinos.”

  72. My zip code is 47% Trendsetters, 39% Lattes and Laptops and 8% Downtown Melting Pot.

    It seems a little off because while there are lots of renters, there are also a lot of single family homes.

    It was fun to look at the zip codes of my parents and siblings!

  73. I checked a few of my former zip codes in NYC and it is accurate. I started to drag it around the different zip codes in Westchester and most are accurate. It seems to do a good job in the smaller zips with a distinct personality.

  74. “The community in that zip is one of the wealthiest in the US, but I don’t really live there. It is just my PO.”

    Is that unique to Westchester? It’s the weirdest thing, having a mailing address that is more prestigious than where you live.

  75. Milo – a typical poison pill works by authorizing the board to issue preferred stock in a takeover. If the takeover is successful, the stock then can be redeemed for a high price or converted to common, thus diluting the acquiror.

    This is a PTM question, not an LfB question :)

  76. Is that unique to Westchester? It’s the weirdest thing, having a mailing address that is more prestigious than where you live.

    oh, no. same thing happens in LA. Anyone familiar with real estate listings containing BHPO?
    = Beverly Hills Post Office. You really live in the city of LA, but the postal service covers you from the 90210 zip code. But, man, the cachet!

    wiki: As citizens of Los Angeles, BHPO residents receive Los Angeles city services and vote in Los Angeles elections. This can cause problems with emergency response. For example, when actress Demi Moore needed an ambulance in January 2012, Beverly Hills and Los Angeles 9-1-1 operators used over two minutes to determine jurisdiction for her home.

  77. It is definitely a NY burb thing. The post office determines the zip codes and the mailing address is determined by the post office. The boundaries and the names that the post office determine do not always match the names of the school districts or the villages. There are municipalities that are usually the Town of “XYZ”. The government of the Town is usually responsible for several Villages and possibly unincorporated portions of the Town. The school districts usually line up with the name of the smaller town or village, but these boundaries are totally different than the post office. I know this phenomenon exists in places like Westchester, Nassau, Suffolk and Putnam counties. not sure about the rest of the state. My school district is very tiny, but it includes six different zip codes with different village and town names.

  78. real estate listings containing BHPO?

    I know couple who based their buying decision on how impressive the address sounded.

  79. We are planning a big trip to see the Mouse this fall. A friend (who has 2 late model luxury cars sitting in the driveway, and whose zip code is dominated by “top tier” to keep this on topic ) had been planning to join us. However, it seems they have just discovered Mr. MMM and he is taking them away from me.

    We will still have a magical time without them, but I am annoyed. And, no one in my real world would understand….

  80. “This is a PTM question, not an LfB question :)”

    Well, I just got back, and as usual, LfB described correctly most poison pills.

    In Moran v. Household International (or some such case) the Delaware Supreme Court allowed the flip over into an acquirer’s stock. It was sort of a convoluted interpretation of Delaware General Corporation Code section 157. IRRC, and I’ve never done one of these kinds of pills, the court likened them to the anti-destruction provisions in a lot of convertible stock. In the event of a merger, holders can convert their stock into merger consideration, which is diluting, and upheld them.

    I’m not sure how often they are used or if other states allow them– I am out of big time law.

    Marty Lipton (I never met him) is recognized as developing the poison pill, and there are some ways of diffusing them, but he was a genius.

  81. I’m really dumb, because I’m having a Hell of a time following this. I can sort of understand the idea of preferred (discounted?) stock to certain people before the takeover and dilution, but in the Malone Wiki entry, it sounded like there was no merger; rather, he was just buying more and more shares of Newscorp until Murdoch decided to convince the Board to give everyone else the chance to buy cheap stock. But that must be an oversimplification.

    Hypothetically speaking, if I had enough money, are there publicly traded companies whose common stock I could slowly and quietly keep acquiring through Schwab and eTrade until I owned 51% of the company, and then I could do whatever I wanted with them? Assume I bought chunks of it through anonymous LLC’s or partnerships, like Walt Disney buying up Florida.

    Ada – that’s disappointing for you and your kids, but that’s kind of funny. Let us know if they sell the two luxury cars for a used Fit and a Trek. We’ll be there in August, so I’ll pass on any tips I pick up. I think Fast Pass has grown increasingly complex, and recent changes have been implemented to further incentivize guests to stay on Disney property. But it’s all Greek to me, because DW handles it. She’s like an expert consultant in her own right on Disney now, knowing the ins and outs of Fastpass, meal plans, character meals, park hopping, crowd theory–she made a spreadsheet that modeled the predicted crowd levels in each park on each day compared to the available character dining reservations at each time to optimize the combination. I don’t even bother. The lake trip is my territory.

  82. Interesting topic yesterday, Grace. Sorry I missed it. Our city has two zips. One was Dorm to Diploma and the other was Emerald City or In Style.

    Meme – thought of you en route to the office just now. Was listening to NPR Now and the replay of yesterday’s Fresh Air. The guest was Donald Polumbo (sp?) who is the Chorus Master for the Metropolitan Opera. I found it fascinating to hear how he guides the chorus to memorize their parts. Also, his background (no conservatory – self taught) is amazing. I would think you could listen on NPR.org and hope you’ll have a chance to. I figure if I loved it, having seen a total of one opera in my life, you will surely love it.

  83. Ris – The Met Chorus is one of the finest in the world. Even more than the big name stars, it and the orchestra, and for certain operas the spectacle, are the reasons to make the pilgrimage.

    anothertwinmom – a gettogether is being planned for next week – we have the day, but are awaiting your input for time in case you can fit a group thing into your schedule. memetotebag at outlook dot com – no accents on the e’s

  84. Milo, that’s why we decided our last trip to Disney two years ago was our last trip to Disney. It’s just not worth it with all the work you have to put in to plan it. The thing that drove me the most crazy was that if you want to eat in any of the “cool” restaurants, you have to make reservations right at 180 days ahead. Not even for a character meal, just to get into a restaurant.

    It’s fun, but it’s not relaxing. We used an app that creates your custom touring plans but we felt like it we just spent all our time running from one ride to the next (and then waiting on line) to try to get on as many as possible.

  85. Milo, tell your wife that you can now create personalized Google maps and can import a spreadsheet into such a map — if you have a column with address data it will put pointers for all those addresses on the map and then the associated data from each row will appear when you click on each site. And you can customize your icons and put in the driving directions in different layers, and download it all to your device for when you don’t have internet.

    I don’t know if it would be as helpful for a Disney trip — a road trip is where it shines — but if she’s a spreadsheet-making trip-planner I thought she might want to know about that tool.

  86. Ada, we will of course be looking forward to a trip report after your trip, just as we are waiting to hear about the Disney cruise experience.

    This group greatly influenced our trip to WDW last year, from learning about DVC to influencing me to loosen the purse strings. Traveling to WDW with other families worked out really well.

    DW used to be like Milo’s in terms of planning out our trips, but DS has taken over much of that role, and planned out much of our last trip there.

  87. Thanks, HM. We’ll try that sometime, if DW can ever make a decision on a mattress. We’re coming close to spending almost as much time mattress shopping as we did shopping for houses, and that’s not hyperbole.

  88. I’m excited for the cruise, but I realized that we are going to WDW, Disneyland and the Disney cruise in one year. Too much time with the mouse even though the visits to the Magic Kingdom and Disneyland are single days added to other vacation plans.

  89. Milo, given the amount of time you will spend on your mattress, I think it makes sense to spend a fair amount of time shopping for one.

    I’m curious of how many here have been to Disneyland. I’m thinking folks living in the eastern US might just go to WDW.

  90. Finn – never been to Disneyland. I have been to Universal Studios Hollywood twice. I don’t know anyone who has traveled cross country to visit Disneyland.

    The thing about the mattress is that you quickly get to a point where the differences become very minuscule. But we’re also thinking that maybe we should upgrade to a king, and then that complicates the furniture issue, because we arent necessarily interested in replacing the whole bedroom set.

  91. Finn, we travel to CA frequently for business and friends. By coincidence, a few of our closest friends live near each other in San Fran metro. We usually try to detour to southern Cal for beach and parks. We went to Legoland when DD was younger. San Diego zoo etc

    We’ve moved closer to LA and Orange County as she’s gotten older. I would be happy to skip Disneyland this year, but she really wants to go one more time. I think it’s so much easier to manage that park if you’ve ever been to Orlando. We will spend most of our other time at the beach and downtown LA.

  92. IMO, Disneyland lends itself better that WDW to being a part, and not the main focus, of a vacation. If you’re a big fan of Disney musicals, Disneyland/CA Adventure have a lot more to offer in that vein as well.

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